5 ms·

That’s a very narrow definition of “useful” and one I’d say is rather focused on yourself? Why is Linux the arbiter of what is “useful”? Why would it still be

by dagmx 2y ago

That’s a very narrow definition of “useful” and one I’d say is rather focused on yourself? Why is Linux the arbiter of what is “useful”? Why would it still be a benchmark flex if it was on macOS, an Os where millions of people do professional work everyday? And why is the iPad just a “Netflix machine” when tons of people use the iPad for professional creative use cases as well?

thebeardisred 2y ago
I'll attempt the best interpretation of the comment. Installing Linux would allow for general purpose use of the device (in a freedom sense). This increases the "utility" of the device and lowers the bar for extending its functionality.
- zitterbewegung 2y ago
  You can run iSH on the device for Linux (somewhat limited). It’s on the App Store https://github.com/ish-app/ish https://github.com/ish-app/ish
  - effie 2y ago
    Can you get real root that way?
gjsman-1000 2y ago
> And why is the iPad just a “Netflix machine” when tons of people use the iPad for professional creative use cases as well? For my family, the iPhone and other Apple devices are the ultimate productivity machines. The App Store, fantastic. Why? Because they are (rightly) terrified of installing apps on Windows. Or any “computer.” They’ve been burned too many times, warned too many times. Unless it’s Microsoft Office, it doesn’t happen. “Programs” are a threat. But apps? Apps don’t hurt you. iPhones and iPads turn on every day when you want them to, they act predictably, it feels consistent in a way a laptop is not. As for the speed of the chip only being useful for “consumption” - technology advances. That A10 Fusion powered iPad from 6 years ago stings to use now, even though it was plenty comfortable at the time. 5 years from now, nobody will regret an M4.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - dagmx 2y ago
    Why are you allowed to have an opinion that trivializes how others work, but when other people do, then its astro-turfing?
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      How are "programs evil" and "apps good"? Without any convincing arguments to back up such claims, they do read like astro-turfing and just regurgitating Tim Cook's keynote speeches. This board is called Hacker News last time I checked, no?
      - datameta 2y ago
        I believe the point that was being made is that the perception, on average, is that iOS apps are carefully manicured and will not require troubleshooting by the typical user, as opposed to windows programs. There have been enough instances where this is true that for a certain slice of the population it is globally true. There is a different expectation of debugging from a consumer not versed in technology from those of us who work with/on it every day.
- iforgotpassword 2y ago
  > That A10 Fusion powered iPad from 6 years ago stings to use now, even though it was plenty comfortable at the time. 5 years from now, nobody will regret an M4. Sorry, I've been around for too long to believe this. :) No matter how big of a milestone, a jump in performance anything ever brought, it never stopped software from eventually using up all the resources available. Just another layer of abstraction, just another framework, just another useless ui gimmick and you'll see that the M4 isn't immune to this either.
- effie 2y ago
  Do you really think actual people ask for and want "ultimate productivity machines"? Btw this term reveals a true kool-aid drinker. I always wanted a machine that is reliable, supported by the software I want to use, and fast enough, and affordable. I never cared for "ultimate productivity" or winning in some bench. I accept that you do; that is something e.g. managers may talk or care about. But most of them do not seem to agree with you that Apple is the ultimate best, because most workers using computers are still on windows machines.
Rinzler89 2y ago
>And why is the iPad just a “Netflix machine” when tons of people use the iPad for professional creative use cases as well? I never said people can't use iPads for profesional applications, I was asking what professional tasks are people doing with the iPad that necessitated the M4 to be in that closed platform vs the M3 or M2, instead of being put in a more open one like the Mac where it can be put to better use at more generic compute tasks similar to what X86 and Nvidia chips are used for, instead of being stuck in a very restricted platform mostly targeted towards content consumption. And so far nobody has provided an answer to that question. All the answers are either repeating Apple's marketing or vague ones like "you can use the iPad for professional applications too you know, it's not just a Netflix machine". OK, but what exactly are those professional iPad applications that mandate the M4 being in the iPad instead of the Mac? I'm bringing this up, because commenters bring up the M4 as the holy grail of chips in discussions about the latest X86 and Qualcomm chips, so if you compare a chip that can currently only run AppStore apps vs chips that can run most SW ever then we're comparing Apples and Oranges.
- dagmx 2y ago
  No, people have provided answers. One of those people is me. You just don't like them because you seem to have a problem imaging other people have differing uses than your own. Edit: this person keeps ignoring any responses that don’t align with their world view and acting like they don’t exist. When challenged they have called multiple people names instead. I’m not responding to them further to prevent dragging this out further.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    Sorry but your answer didn't actually answer what I asked for though. Which is fine, just don't claim you did and then switch to gaslighting me that "I just don't like your answer". Please keep a mature attitude and not act like a toddler. And it's not just "my use case" that I'm referring to since I don't do any of those, it's generic use cases that I'm talking about in examples, since X86/Qualcomm are also generic chips being used for a shit tonne of use cases and not restricted to certain AppStores like the M4 is in the iPad, so if you bring M4 in comparison with those generic chips then you'd better provide argument on how they're comparable given the current SW platform restrictions, and so far you haven't.
burningChrome 2y ago
Why is Apple the arbiter of what is “useful”? Why would it still be a benchmark flex if it was on Linux, an Os where millions of people do professional work everyday? Your argument cuts both ways.
- dagmx 2y ago
  It doesn’t cut both ways because I’m not making that argument at all. You interjected your own argument that you’re now arguing against. I’m making the argument that “usefulness” extends outside of Linux use. I’m not saying it only extends to a specific group. Point me to where that is even implied.

by dagmx 2y ago

thebeardisred 2y ago

I'll attempt the best interpretation of the comment. Installing Linux would allow for general purpose use of the device (in a freedom sense). This increases the "utility" of the device and lowers the bar for extending its functionality.

zitterbewegung 2y ago
You can run iSH on the device for Linux (somewhat limited). It’s on the App Store https://github.com/ish-app/ish https://github.com/ish-app/ish
- effie 2y ago
  Can you get real root that way?

gjsman-1000 2y ago

> And why is the iPad just a “Netflix machine” when tons of people use the iPad for professional creative use cases as well? For my family, the iPhone and other Apple devices are the ultimate productivity machines. The App Store, fantastic. Why? Because they are (rightly) terrified of installing apps on Windows. Or any “computer.” They’ve been burned too many times, warned too many times. Unless it’s Microsoft Office, it doesn’t happen. “Programs” are a threat. But apps? Apps don’t hurt you. iPhones and iPads turn on every day when you want them to, they act predictably, it feels consistent in a way a laptop is not. As for the speed of the chip only being useful for “consumption” - technology advances. That A10 Fusion powered iPad from 6 years ago stings to use now, even though it was plenty comfortable at the time. 5 years from now, nobody will regret an M4.

Rinzler89 2y ago
[flagged]
- dagmx 2y ago
  Why are you allowed to have an opinion that trivializes how others work, but when other people do, then its astro-turfing?
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    How are "programs evil" and "apps good"? Without any convincing arguments to back up such claims, they do read like astro-turfing and just regurgitating Tim Cook's keynote speeches. This board is called Hacker News last time I checked, no?
    - datameta 2y ago
      I believe the point that was being made is that the perception, on average, is that iOS apps are carefully manicured and will not require troubleshooting by the typical user, as opposed to windows programs. There have been enough instances where this is true that for a certain slice of the population it is globally true. There is a different expectation of debugging from a consumer not versed in technology from those of us who work with/on it every day.
iforgotpassword 2y ago
> That A10 Fusion powered iPad from 6 years ago stings to use now, even though it was plenty comfortable at the time. 5 years from now, nobody will regret an M4. Sorry, I've been around for too long to believe this. :) No matter how big of a milestone, a jump in performance anything ever brought, it never stopped software from eventually using up all the resources available. Just another layer of abstraction, just another framework, just another useless ui gimmick and you'll see that the M4 isn't immune to this either.
effie 2y ago
Do you really think actual people ask for and want "ultimate productivity machines"? Btw this term reveals a true kool-aid drinker. I always wanted a machine that is reliable, supported by the software I want to use, and fast enough, and affordable. I never cared for "ultimate productivity" or winning in some bench. I accept that you do; that is something e.g. managers may talk or care about. But most of them do not seem to agree with you that Apple is the ultimate best, because most workers using computers are still on windows machines.

Rinzler89 2y ago

>And why is the iPad just a “Netflix machine” when tons of people use the iPad for professional creative use cases as well? I never said people can't use iPads for profesional applications, I was asking what professional tasks are people doing with the iPad that necessitated the M4 to be in that closed platform vs the M3 or M2, instead of being put in a more open one like the Mac where it can be put to better use at more generic compute tasks similar to what X86 and Nvidia chips are used for, instead of being stuck in a very restricted platform mostly targeted towards content consumption. And so far nobody has provided an answer to that question. All the answers are either repeating Apple's marketing or vague ones like "you can use the iPad for professional applications too you know, it's not just a Netflix machine". OK, but what exactly are those professional iPad applications that mandate the M4 being in the iPad instead of the Mac? I'm bringing this up, because commenters bring up the M4 as the holy grail of chips in discussions about the latest X86 and Qualcomm chips, so if you compare a chip that can currently only run AppStore apps vs chips that can run most SW ever then we're comparing Apples and Oranges.

dagmx 2y ago
No, people have provided answers. One of those people is me. You just don't like them because you seem to have a problem imaging other people have differing uses than your own. Edit: this person keeps ignoring any responses that don’t align with their world view and acting like they don’t exist. When challenged they have called multiple people names instead. I’m not responding to them further to prevent dragging this out further.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  Sorry but your answer didn't actually answer what I asked for though. Which is fine, just don't claim you did and then switch to gaslighting me that "I just don't like your answer". Please keep a mature attitude and not act like a toddler. And it's not just "my use case" that I'm referring to since I don't do any of those, it's generic use cases that I'm talking about in examples, since X86/Qualcomm are also generic chips being used for a shit tonne of use cases and not restricted to certain AppStores like the M4 is in the iPad, so if you bring M4 in comparison with those generic chips then you'd better provide argument on how they're comparable given the current SW platform restrictions, and so far you haven't.

burningChrome 2y ago

Why is Apple the arbiter of what is “useful”? Why would it still be a benchmark flex if it was on Linux, an Os where millions of people do professional work everyday? Your argument cuts both ways.

dagmx 2y ago
It doesn’t cut both ways because I’m not making that argument at all. You interjected your own argument that you’re now arguing against. I’m making the argument that “usefulness” extends outside of Linux use. I’m not saying it only extends to a specific group. Point me to where that is even implied.