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This is all well and good but I thought the primary reason for eschewing traditional design was the cost of labour rose just as the cost of material production

by lmpdev 2y ago

This is all well and good but I thought the primary reason for eschewing traditional design was the cost of labour rose just as the cost of material production fell (a gap which continues to increase) You can’t get a highly skilled stonemason to devote dozens or even hundreds of hours to ornate a building’s nonfunctional aspects without inordinate wealth and a lack of desire for a ROI on the building’s construction Glass, steel and concrete have emerged as the cheapest mainstay structural materials, and without cheap labour was bound to become the language of contemporary architecture

CuriouslyC 2y ago
Concrete is an extremely flexible building material, you don't just have to pour box forms. Brutalists just lack imagination.
- lmpdev 2y ago
  How do you go about easily producing reliable intricate dies and casts with novel designs? That’s a tough scale to nail for one offs with one shot I know precast is all the rage but surely there are better materials like metal or wood for particularly ornate design elements that don’t waste as much CO2 on potentially miscast half tonne experiments Unless my intuition is wrong and cement casting is reliable and foolproof at any scale/desired fidelity?
  - CuriouslyC 2y ago
    You can do DIY mold forms using sand as a base and plastic sheeting or silicone in a box. This is most often going to be for precast stuff you mortar onto a flat surface elsewhere but you can create some very fun curved surfaces in place as well. As for other materials, I love wood but concrete wins for water/fire resistance and metal is expensive.
VyseofArcadia 2y ago
>I thought the primary reason for eschewing traditional design was the cost of labour That's part of it, but there's more to it. I used to work on architectural CAD software, and the office I worked out of was (probably not coincidentally) close to a well-respected architecture school. Even as a software engineer, I ended up going to a lot of architecture conferences and seminars, as it was important to the company that even the devs try to understand the users. There is a large and very vocal contingent of architects who are insufferable artistes who want to eschew traditional design for the sake of eschewing traditional design. Practicality is of secondary or even tertiary concern.
- snowpid 2y ago
  " There is a large and very vocal contingent of architects who are insufferable artistes who want to eschew traditional design for the sake of eschewing traditional design. Practicality is of secondary or even tertiary concern. " Yes, it is even worse. These advocates (in Germany at least) call everyone traditional minded literal Nazis (though they cant name any antisemitism, anti Slavic , pro war behaviour of traditional architecture). Also these architects tend to boycott Israel because you know they think they have a deeper insight of Palestine conflict.
throw0101c 2y ago
> This is all well and good but I thought the primary reason for eschewing traditional design was the cost of labour rose just as the cost of material production fell (a gap which continues to increase) Yes, the post-WW2 building boom was all about fast and cheap to serve the needs of returning GIs. But in the last few years it is possible to get pre-made moldings from a factory so local mill works / skills are not strictly necessary: * https://www.kuikenbrothers.com/moulding-scale-proportion-seminar-with-brent-hull-at-kuiken-brothers-live-product-expo-2022/ https://www.kuikenbrothers.com/moulding-scale-proportion-sem... * https://windsorone.com/products/moldings/ https://windsorone.com/products/moldings/ * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guM4z6Hps0I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guM4z6Hps0I The problem is that designers/architects still need to understand the theory behind the proportions if you want to do it properly, and most folks don't have it: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUUpj2Du8wY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUUpj2Du8wY

by lmpdev 2y ago

CuriouslyC 2y ago

Concrete is an extremely flexible building material, you don't just have to pour box forms. Brutalists just lack imagination.

lmpdev 2y ago
How do you go about easily producing reliable intricate dies and casts with novel designs? That’s a tough scale to nail for one offs with one shot I know precast is all the rage but surely there are better materials like metal or wood for particularly ornate design elements that don’t waste as much CO2 on potentially miscast half tonne experiments Unless my intuition is wrong and cement casting is reliable and foolproof at any scale/desired fidelity?
- CuriouslyC 2y ago
  You can do DIY mold forms using sand as a base and plastic sheeting or silicone in a box. This is most often going to be for precast stuff you mortar onto a flat surface elsewhere but you can create some very fun curved surfaces in place as well. As for other materials, I love wood but concrete wins for water/fire resistance and metal is expensive.

VyseofArcadia 2y ago

>I thought the primary reason for eschewing traditional design was the cost of labour That's part of it, but there's more to it. I used to work on architectural CAD software, and the office I worked out of was (probably not coincidentally) close to a well-respected architecture school. Even as a software engineer, I ended up going to a lot of architecture conferences and seminars, as it was important to the company that even the devs try to understand the users. There is a large and very vocal contingent of architects who are insufferable artistes who want to eschew traditional design for the sake of eschewing traditional design. Practicality is of secondary or even tertiary concern.

snowpid 2y ago
" There is a large and very vocal contingent of architects who are insufferable artistes who want to eschew traditional design for the sake of eschewing traditional design. Practicality is of secondary or even tertiary concern. " Yes, it is even worse. These advocates (in Germany at least) call everyone traditional minded literal Nazis (though they cant name any antisemitism, anti Slavic , pro war behaviour of traditional architecture). Also these architects tend to boycott Israel because you know they think they have a deeper insight of Palestine conflict.

throw0101c 2y ago

> This is all well and good but I thought the primary reason for eschewing traditional design was the cost of labour rose just as the cost of material production fell (a gap which continues to increase) Yes, the post-WW2 building boom was all about fast and cheap to serve the needs of returning GIs. But in the last few years it is possible to get pre-made moldings from a factory so local mill works / skills are not strictly necessary: * https://www.kuikenbrothers.com/moulding-scale-proportion-seminar-with-brent-hull-at-kuiken-brothers-live-product-expo-2022/ https://www.kuikenbrothers.com/moulding-scale-proportion-sem... * https://windsorone.com/products/moldings/ https://windsorone.com/products/moldings/ * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guM4z6Hps0I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guM4z6Hps0I The problem is that designers/architects still need to understand the theory behind the proportions if you want to do it properly, and most folks don't have it: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUUpj2Du8wY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUUpj2Du8wY