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Could you share a link with more details?

by baxtr 2y ago

teractiveodular 2y ago
Here's a pretty solid overview in the late, lamented JRTR. https://www.ejrcf.or.jp/jrtr/jrtr63/pdf/14-21_web.pdf https://www.ejrcf.or.jp/jrtr/jrtr63/pdf/14-21_web.pdf (PDF) The article also notes that the Parisian RER was inspired by Tokyo, and throws casual shade by noting that public transport in Paris at 3 billion trips per year is just a small fraction of Tokyo's 15 billion trips.
- sofixa 2y ago
  > The article also notes that the Parisian RER was inspired by Tokyo, and throws casual shade by noting that public transport in Paris at 3 billion trips per year is just a small fraction of Tokyo's 15 billion trips. The Paris metro area is 11 million, while Tokyo's is 38 million. So the difference isn't as huge as it initially seems, and I'd bet Paris will start catching up with the Grand Paris Express (4 new automated lines, the first one of which is a loop in the metro area and will be very high capacity) and all other related projects (there are like 10 different trams being built in various parts of the metro area, a new airport express, a bunch of BRTs, RER extension and hell even a cable car). Edit: did some digging, and I'm not buying the number for Paris. Surprisingly the total number of trips isn't a number referenced in Ile de France Mobilités (the organising authority)'s Open Data [1], and they're the only ones that would have all of it, instead of just metro/some RERs/etc. Statista say that for 2022 (year still impacted by Covid), there were 1.3 billion trips on the metro alone [2]. And the metro is a small part, RERs cover much wider territory and have much higher capacity, and there are of course a bunch of trams and a few hundred bus lines. And there are also people commuting by regular intercity trains or even TGVs, but they're a small minority. According to OMNIL (observatory of mobility in Ile de France), there's a total of 4.1 billion trips on public transit (including metro, RER, Transilien regional trains, trams, buses and night buses) in Ile de France for 2023 [3]. 4.1 billion vs 15 billion for less than 1/3 of the population means that Tokyo and Paris actually aren't all that far off. Per capita, this makes for 394 trips per year per inhabitant for Tokyo, and 372 for Paris. Of course both cities receive lots of tourists and business travel, so this is skewed somewhat. And as I said, Paris is undergoing a massive expansion in number and length of lines, so it will surpass Tokyo in a few years (initial sections of the line 15 will open in 2025). 1 - https://data.iledefrance-mobilites.fr/pages/home/ https://data.iledefrance-mobilites.fr/pages/home/ 2 - https://fr.statista.com/themes/5703/la-mobilite-en-ile-de-france/#editorsPicks https://fr.statista.com/themes/5703/la-mobilite-en-ile-de-fr... 3 - https://omnil.fr/trafic-annuel-et-journalier https://omnil.fr/trafic-annuel-et-journalier
  - presentation 2y ago
    When you say "surpass Tokyo", it really depends what you mean by Tokyo's metro. A lot of the stats literally talk about the central Tokyo subway network, which consists of 13 lines [1]; when in reality that's just one amongst a huge number of other operators that comprise the Greater Tokyo rail system, arguably consisting of 121 lines, excluding trams [2]. Given that this article is about regional transit, I think that's a fair comparison. Taking that into account, as far as number of rail lines are concerned, Paris would probably need to at least quintuple its rail lines before it gets even close. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_Greater_Tokyo#Rail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_Greater_Tokyo#Rai...
    - sofixa 2y ago
      Number of lines is an irrelevant metric, especially when you think about the fact that there are multiple private operators in Tokyo, and thus multiple competing lines in various places. Compared to Paris where lines were always centrally planned, and thus there is only overlap if there are capacity issues (lines A, 1, to a lesser extent 14 and E). Length of track will similarly be skewed towards the city with the overlapping competing lines. Passenger kilometres travelled, number of trips, etc are more relevant.
karaokeyoga 2y ago
Here's a somewhat morbid link that really hit home how far these Tokyo-area trains can travel in a day (suburban express to urban and back again, times four): https://soranews24.com/2024/07/03/man-passes-away-on-tokyo-train-no-one-notices-until-nearly-12-hours-and-650-kilometers-later/ https://soranews24.com/2024/07/03/man-passes-away-on-tokyo-t...
presentation 2y ago
Not a link, but there are many lines that do this; the poster mentions Toyoko line, which (as of now) goes Hannō > Kotake-Mukaihara: Seibu Ikebukuro Line Kotake-Mukaihara > Shibuya: Tokyo Metro Fukutoshin Line Shibuya > Yokohama: Tokyu Toyoko Line Yokohama > Motomachi-Chūkagai: Minatomirai Line Those are all different companies operating on the same rights of way seamlessly! When you reach the through service stops, it just looks like any normal stop - there is generally no interruption in service, it just stops for some seconds and proceeds onwards like nothing happened. If you visit Tokyo you would notice that sometimes you'll see Tokyo Metro-branded trains on JR tracks, or Toei-branded trains on Keio tracks, and so on. Many lines are like this; if you look up any of the central railway lines in Tokyo on Wikipedia, you'll see on their station charts notes about their through services. Some more instances: Odakyu Line > Tokyo Metro Chiyoda Line > JR Joban line Keio Line > Keio New Line > Toei Shinjuku Line Tokyo Metro Hibiya Line > Tobu Skytree Line > Tobu Nikko Line JR Chuo Sobu Line > Tokyo Metro Tozai Line > Tōyō Rapid Railway Line, and so on.

Could you share a link with more details?

by baxtr 2y ago

Could you share a link with more details?

Here's a pretty solid overview in the late, lamented JRTR. https://www.ejrcf.or.jp/jrtr/jrtr63/pdf/14-21_web.pdf https://www.ejrcf.or.jp/jrtr/jrtr63/pdf/14-21_web.pdf (PDF) The article also notes that the Parisian RER was inspired by Tokyo, and throws casual shade by noting that public transport in Paris at 3 billion trips per year is just a small fraction of Tokyo's 15 billion trips.

sofixa 2y ago
> The article also notes that the Parisian RER was inspired by Tokyo, and throws casual shade by noting that public transport in Paris at 3 billion trips per year is just a small fraction of Tokyo's 15 billion trips. The Paris metro area is 11 million, while Tokyo's is 38 million. So the difference isn't as huge as it initially seems, and I'd bet Paris will start catching up with the Grand Paris Express (4 new automated lines, the first one of which is a loop in the metro area and will be very high capacity) and all other related projects (there are like 10 different trams being built in various parts of the metro area, a new airport express, a bunch of BRTs, RER extension and hell even a cable car). Edit: did some digging, and I'm not buying the number for Paris. Surprisingly the total number of trips isn't a number referenced in Ile de France Mobilités (the organising authority)'s Open Data [1], and they're the only ones that would have all of it, instead of just metro/some RERs/etc. Statista say that for 2022 (year still impacted by Covid), there were 1.3 billion trips on the metro alone [2]. And the metro is a small part, RERs cover much wider territory and have much higher capacity, and there are of course a bunch of trams and a few hundred bus lines. And there are also people commuting by regular intercity trains or even TGVs, but they're a small minority. According to OMNIL (observatory of mobility in Ile de France), there's a total of 4.1 billion trips on public transit (including metro, RER, Transilien regional trains, trams, buses and night buses) in Ile de France for 2023 [3]. 4.1 billion vs 15 billion for less than 1/3 of the population means that Tokyo and Paris actually aren't all that far off. Per capita, this makes for 394 trips per year per inhabitant for Tokyo, and 372 for Paris. Of course both cities receive lots of tourists and business travel, so this is skewed somewhat. And as I said, Paris is undergoing a massive expansion in number and length of lines, so it will surpass Tokyo in a few years (initial sections of the line 15 will open in 2025). 1 - https://data.iledefrance-mobilites.fr/pages/home/ https://data.iledefrance-mobilites.fr/pages/home/ 2 - https://fr.statista.com/themes/5703/la-mobilite-en-ile-de-france/#editorsPicks https://fr.statista.com/themes/5703/la-mobilite-en-ile-de-fr... 3 - https://omnil.fr/trafic-annuel-et-journalier https://omnil.fr/trafic-annuel-et-journalier
- presentation 2y ago
  When you say "surpass Tokyo", it really depends what you mean by Tokyo's metro. A lot of the stats literally talk about the central Tokyo subway network, which consists of 13 lines [1]; when in reality that's just one amongst a huge number of other operators that comprise the Greater Tokyo rail system, arguably consisting of 121 lines, excluding trams [2]. Given that this article is about regional transit, I think that's a fair comparison. Taking that into account, as far as number of rail lines are concerned, Paris would probably need to at least quintuple its rail lines before it gets even close. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_Greater_Tokyo#Rail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_Greater_Tokyo#Rai...
  - sofixa 2y ago
    Number of lines is an irrelevant metric, especially when you think about the fact that there are multiple private operators in Tokyo, and thus multiple competing lines in various places. Compared to Paris where lines were always centrally planned, and thus there is only overlap if there are capacity issues (lines A, 1, to a lesser extent 14 and E). Length of track will similarly be skewed towards the city with the overlapping competing lines. Passenger kilometres travelled, number of trips, etc are more relevant.

karaokeyoga 2y ago

Here's a somewhat morbid link that really hit home how far these Tokyo-area trains can travel in a day (suburban express to urban and back again, times four): https://soranews24.com/2024/07/03/man-passes-away-on-tokyo-train-no-one-notices-until-nearly-12-hours-and-650-kilometers-later/ https://soranews24.com/2024/07/03/man-passes-away-on-tokyo-t...

presentation 2y ago

Not a link, but there are many lines that do this; the poster mentions Toyoko line, which (as of now) goes Hannō > Kotake-Mukaihara: Seibu Ikebukuro Line Kotake-Mukaihara > Shibuya: Tokyo Metro Fukutoshin Line Shibuya > Yokohama: Tokyu Toyoko Line Yokohama > Motomachi-Chūkagai: Minatomirai Line Those are all different companies operating on the same rights of way seamlessly! When you reach the through service stops, it just looks like any normal stop - there is generally no interruption in service, it just stops for some seconds and proceeds onwards like nothing happened. If you visit Tokyo you would notice that sometimes you'll see Tokyo Metro-branded trains on JR tracks, or Toei-branded trains on Keio tracks, and so on. Many lines are like this; if you look up any of the central railway lines in Tokyo on Wikipedia, you'll see on their station charts notes about their through services. Some more instances: Odakyu Line > Tokyo Metro Chiyoda Line > JR Joban line Keio Line > Keio New Line > Toei Shinjuku Line Tokyo Metro Hibiya Line > Tobu Skytree Line > Tobu Nikko Line JR Chuo Sobu Line > Tokyo Metro Tozai Line > Tōyō Rapid Railway Line, and so on.