3 ms·

I have a good feeling we're going to make a fairly big impact on cancer in our lifetimes with mRNA and other new discoveries in our lifetime. Autoimmune issues

I have a good feeling we're going to make a fairly big impact on cancer in our lifetimes with mRNA and other new discoveries in our lifetime. Autoimmune issues I'm feeling much less confident about. It seems like so many of the therapies are "turn down the immune system". I wish there was wider study into autoimmune derived mental health complications too. Maybe I'm totally wrong on this (and I'm very OK to be proven wrong) but maybe there's something to find here.

roywiggins 2y ago
There is evidence that inflammation is among the causes of depression: https://wapo.st/3xHLze1 https://wapo.st/3xHLze1 > pro-inflammatory drugs can induce people to become depressed, which suggests a causative link. In one seminal study published in the New England Journal of Medicine, Miller and his colleagues conducted a double-blind study of 40 cancer patients undergoing treatment with interferon-alpha, an inflammatory cytokine. > Though none of the patients had depression to begin with, the inflammatory agent had a striking effect: Many became depressed, a finding that has been consistently replicated.
- Aerroon 2y ago
  Is this why something like vitamin C can help with depression?
  - theGnuMe 2y ago
    What the mechanism?
    - sharpshadow 2y ago
      „Vitamin C supplementation attenuates the oxidative stress (lipid peroxidation) and inflammatory response (IL-6) to a single bout of exercise.“[1] Vitamin C is essential and gets consumed by the body and needs to be replenished. For example during sickness the Vitamin C consumption is higher which could lead quickly to low levels. 1. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32162041/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32162041/
  - lyall 2y ago
    I don’t believe there is any evidence that vitamin C reduces inflammation or helps with depression. Vitamin C is an antioxidant, not an anti-inflammatory agent. There is evidence that things that reduce systemic inflammation help with depression. Fish oil, or more generally a balanced omega-3/omega-6 intake is one example. Curcumin is another. However the effects are modest, which is probably to be expected with a condition as diverse as depression.
- funnym0nk3y 2y ago
  However the causality is not clear. Inflammatory agents cause depression. And most depressed people have higher pro-inflammatory markers. It could also be the case that the inflammation is a result of something completely different.
steelframe 2y ago
> Autoimmune issues I'm feeling much less confident about. It seems like so many of the therapies are "turn down the immune system". The immune system has many branches, and you can effectively deplete one branch of the immune system while preserving the other branches to fight infection. For example with MS a very effective treatment is CD20+ B cell suppression, as rituximab does. For many people diagnosed with MS this has been effectively a "cure," in the sense that while they need to continually deplete their CD20+ B cells, their disease doesn't progress in any meaningful way, and their immune systems remain largely able to fight infection. So we don't need to wholesale "turn down" the entire immune system for many autoimmune diseases. Rather, we need to surgically target specific parts of it and either suppress those parts or modify their behavior. Given the success we've seen with ritixumab and MS I'm more optimistic about our prospects for finding effective treatments for autoimmune conditions.
- hanniabu 2y ago
  And all of this is controlled by your microbiome which is always ignored. I really wish more money was put towards researching that. It's literally our body's bioreactor.
  - phito 2y ago
    Is it really controlled by the microbiome or is it just a factor among many others?
  - meindnoch 2y ago
    Ah yes, the "gut" meme. No, the immune system is not controlled by our microbiome. The microbiome interacts with, and modulates the immune system in various ways, but it's hardly "controlling" it. There are germ-free animal models with sterile guts, which demonstrate that you can live without a microbiome - of course not 100% healthy, but they can still live and reproduce. The immune system is modulated by a lot of things: circadian rhythm, environmental stress, nutrients, etc. Yes, the gut microbiome is one of them. But let's be a bit more nuanced than Joe Rogan or The Liver King.
MR_Bulldops 2y ago
I am here to restore your confidence about autoimmune issues. Recently (and still in many cases) "turn down the immune system" was the treatment for most cancers. Of course, the purpose of anti-cancer drugs isn't to turn down the immune system. It just happens that the side effect of drugs that target cancer cells also target other rapidly-dividing cells like hair, endothelial, and immune cells. In fact, chemotherapy drugs like Methotrexate are prescribed - at lower doses than for cancer patients - to people with Lupus and other autoimmune diseases. There are similar challenges with cancer and autoimmune diseases, so progress in one might help progress in the other. From the article: "They are now working to find ways to deliver these molecules safely and effectively to people." This is a challenge for many potentially effective cancer treatments as well.
- spondylosaurus 2y ago
  And some autoimmune treatments started out as failed attempts at developing cancer treatments, too. Happy accidents!
  - kylehotchkiss 2y ago
    I <3 all the happy accidents that allow us to live much healthier and longer lives than the generations before us
- idunnoman1222 2y ago
  Killing quickly dividing cells as a way of modulating immune system is ‘turn down the immune system’ Just as antivirals are actually ‘stop cell division’ Neither of which inspire any confidence
  - MR_Bulldops 2y ago
    It should inspire confidence that we have moved beyond that for many types of cancer. And if it can be done with cancer treatment, we are closer to doing it with autoimmune and anti-virus treatments.

roywiggins 2y ago

There is evidence that inflammation is among the causes of depression: https://wapo.st/3xHLze1 https://wapo.st/3xHLze1 > pro-inflammatory drugs can induce people to become depressed, which suggests a causative link. In one seminal study published in the New England Journal of Medicine, Miller and his colleagues conducted a double-blind study of 40 cancer patients undergoing treatment with interferon-alpha, an inflammatory cytokine. > Though none of the patients had depression to begin with, the inflammatory agent had a striking effect: Many became depressed, a finding that has been consistently replicated.

Aerroon 2y ago
Is this why something like vitamin C can help with depression?
- theGnuMe 2y ago
  What the mechanism?
  - sharpshadow 2y ago
    „Vitamin C supplementation attenuates the oxidative stress (lipid peroxidation) and inflammatory response (IL-6) to a single bout of exercise.“[1] Vitamin C is essential and gets consumed by the body and needs to be replenished. For example during sickness the Vitamin C consumption is higher which could lead quickly to low levels. 1. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32162041/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32162041/
- lyall 2y ago
  I don’t believe there is any evidence that vitamin C reduces inflammation or helps with depression. Vitamin C is an antioxidant, not an anti-inflammatory agent. There is evidence that things that reduce systemic inflammation help with depression. Fish oil, or more generally a balanced omega-3/omega-6 intake is one example. Curcumin is another. However the effects are modest, which is probably to be expected with a condition as diverse as depression.
funnym0nk3y 2y ago
However the causality is not clear. Inflammatory agents cause depression. And most depressed people have higher pro-inflammatory markers. It could also be the case that the inflammation is a result of something completely different.

steelframe 2y ago

> Autoimmune issues I'm feeling much less confident about. It seems like so many of the therapies are "turn down the immune system". The immune system has many branches, and you can effectively deplete one branch of the immune system while preserving the other branches to fight infection. For example with MS a very effective treatment is CD20+ B cell suppression, as rituximab does. For many people diagnosed with MS this has been effectively a "cure," in the sense that while they need to continually deplete their CD20+ B cells, their disease doesn't progress in any meaningful way, and their immune systems remain largely able to fight infection. So we don't need to wholesale "turn down" the entire immune system for many autoimmune diseases. Rather, we need to surgically target specific parts of it and either suppress those parts or modify their behavior. Given the success we've seen with ritixumab and MS I'm more optimistic about our prospects for finding effective treatments for autoimmune conditions.

hanniabu 2y ago
And all of this is controlled by your microbiome which is always ignored. I really wish more money was put towards researching that. It's literally our body's bioreactor.
- phito 2y ago
  Is it really controlled by the microbiome or is it just a factor among many others?
- meindnoch 2y ago
  Ah yes, the "gut" meme. No, the immune system is not controlled by our microbiome. The microbiome interacts with, and modulates the immune system in various ways, but it's hardly "controlling" it. There are germ-free animal models with sterile guts, which demonstrate that you can live without a microbiome - of course not 100% healthy, but they can still live and reproduce. The immune system is modulated by a lot of things: circadian rhythm, environmental stress, nutrients, etc. Yes, the gut microbiome is one of them. But let's be a bit more nuanced than Joe Rogan or The Liver King.

MR_Bulldops 2y ago

I am here to restore your confidence about autoimmune issues. Recently (and still in many cases) "turn down the immune system" was the treatment for most cancers. Of course, the purpose of anti-cancer drugs isn't to turn down the immune system. It just happens that the side effect of drugs that target cancer cells also target other rapidly-dividing cells like hair, endothelial, and immune cells. In fact, chemotherapy drugs like Methotrexate are prescribed - at lower doses than for cancer patients - to people with Lupus and other autoimmune diseases. There are similar challenges with cancer and autoimmune diseases, so progress in one might help progress in the other. From the article: "They are now working to find ways to deliver these molecules safely and effectively to people." This is a challenge for many potentially effective cancer treatments as well.

spondylosaurus 2y ago
And some autoimmune treatments started out as failed attempts at developing cancer treatments, too. Happy accidents!
- kylehotchkiss 2y ago
  I <3 all the happy accidents that allow us to live much healthier and longer lives than the generations before us
idunnoman1222 2y ago
Killing quickly dividing cells as a way of modulating immune system is ‘turn down the immune system’ Just as antivirals are actually ‘stop cell division’ Neither of which inspire any confidence
- MR_Bulldops 2y ago
  It should inspire confidence that we have moved beyond that for many types of cancer. And if it can be done with cancer treatment, we are closer to doing it with autoimmune and anti-virus treatments.