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Frozen pizza takes like 2 minutes. You literally just put it in the oven, go do something else, then take it out and slice it. Normally lunch takes about 15-20

Frozen pizza takes like 2 minutes. You literally just put it in the oven, go do something else, then take it out and slice it. Normally lunch takes about 15-20 minutes. Dinner takes ~45. We usually have overnight oats for breakfast which takes ~5 minutes every 3 days to prepare. Our older one is usually happy to get some combination of cut up fruit, toast, sausage, and cottage cheese for breakfast, which takes like 2-5 minutes to throw together. The time sink is hounding her to actually eat! My wife never worked a career and never wanted to, so there'd be no "going back", but yeah we were happy on a small fraction of my current salary when we were younger, or half my current salary just a couple years ago. I'm not particularly interested in status or materialism; if I didn't have my family, I'd already be done with my career. There's an endless list of other things to do. Even programming is quite a bit more enjoyable when you're doing it for yourself. I've actually told my last few managers that I'm not specifically trying to get to the top of the career ladder with the extra stress and responsibility, but they inevitably push you toward it anyway. Modern corporations don't seem to know how to deal with someone who isn't motivated by status (or I guess they just need someone who can do the stuff, and I'll do it if they need me to). One of my managers actually told me he thought I was having self-confidence issues when it was exactly the opposite! I think a couple years later he's moved closer to my perspective for himself. I've also taken all of my paternity leave including the unpaid portions. No regrets there. I feel super fortunate for having had the opportunity and would obviously recommend everyone in tech to do the same.

ivan_gammel 2y ago
So you are lucky one to have happy family. Do you think your example is a good argument in gender equality discussion? Why my comment above triggered your response?
- ndriscoll 2y ago
  I think saying women like her are enslaved is itself misogyny. She has agency. She's the one who pushed for our setup (I probably would've done grad school for math or physics and tried to go the academic route if we hadn't met). My reply is to illustrate that you're thinking about people like us wrong: she didn't make a sacrifice to be a homemaker; she's not pining to go work in an office. I make the sacrifice by working so she doesn't have to. In fact during our 20s she had no responsibilities at all and could pursue any passions she wanted to knowing I had the money handled. I don't know how relevant our situation is in the wider scope. I'm only speaking to the way people think it's fine to second guess her in a way they wouldn't if she had a job they'd like her to have. Jira isn't going to bring fulfillment to her life. Most businesses aren't curing cancer; they just have some kind of boring work that they need someone to apply a generic solution to. It's not very intellectually stimulating either; you're not doing particle physics. To the extent that it is relevant, I'd speculate that most guys pretty much don't care at all about a potential spouse's career prospects while most girls do. So if a girl is in a social circle with lots of guys with high paying career potential (e.g. engineering class), she can probably marry one of them and pursue whatever she wants. Guys will generally not do as well in the dating market if they have their mind set on being a househusband. They might find someone, but it will probably be quite a bit more difficult. I have no idea how much of an effect that would have and obviously there will be multiple reasons for the discrepancy. I know I wouldn't be doing software as a job if I had that option though, and I like programming! Like another commenter said, if "campground manager" paid as well, they'd probably do that instead.
  - ivan_gammel 2y ago
    > I think saying women like her are enslaved is itself misogyny Fully agree. I would not change anything in my comment above nevertheless. It is not about the women who have and make the choice. We are not in the world yet, where this would be the default assumption.
    - ndriscoll 2y ago
      At least in the US, according to [0], around 67% of women with children under 18 who are not employed prefer that. Among women with children, a higher proportion of women who do work would prefer not to than the proportion of women who do not work and would prefer to. It appears that most women with children have the working status that they prefer, but if you had to guess that someone was unhappy about their situation, it would be a working mom. Additionally, most moms do not have a preference to work outside the home. Keep in mind this is after decades of messaging of the type I'm pointing out and people are exemplifying in this very thread after I pointed it out where women who stay at home are questioned about whether they're "accomplished" and generally looked down upon by the middle/upper middle class. [0] https://news.gallup.com/poll/267737/record-high-women-prefer-working-homemaking.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/267737/record-high-women-prefer...
      - ivan_gammel 2y ago
        > Among women with children, a higher proportion of women who do work would prefer not to than the proportion of women who do not work and would prefer to 1. Just a reminder: women who stay at home with children do work and it is wrong to say otherwise. 2. As I pointed out already numerous times here in other comments, those polls are just numbers. You cannot simply draw a conclusion that if there exists some gender-based preference, it’s ok. Without answers and analysis why it’s just another bad research. And there’s A LOT of reasons, why those numbers may not reflect happiness and accomplishment, but rather a safe choice and avoidance. Please, do the proper research. I don’t think you are adequately informed on this matter.
        2y ago

ivan_gammel 2y ago

So you are lucky one to have happy family. Do you think your example is a good argument in gender equality discussion? Why my comment above triggered your response?

ndriscoll 2y ago
I think saying women like her are enslaved is itself misogyny. She has agency. She's the one who pushed for our setup (I probably would've done grad school for math or physics and tried to go the academic route if we hadn't met). My reply is to illustrate that you're thinking about people like us wrong: she didn't make a sacrifice to be a homemaker; she's not pining to go work in an office. I make the sacrifice by working so she doesn't have to. In fact during our 20s she had no responsibilities at all and could pursue any passions she wanted to knowing I had the money handled. I don't know how relevant our situation is in the wider scope. I'm only speaking to the way people think it's fine to second guess her in a way they wouldn't if she had a job they'd like her to have. Jira isn't going to bring fulfillment to her life. Most businesses aren't curing cancer; they just have some kind of boring work that they need someone to apply a generic solution to. It's not very intellectually stimulating either; you're not doing particle physics. To the extent that it is relevant, I'd speculate that most guys pretty much don't care at all about a potential spouse's career prospects while most girls do. So if a girl is in a social circle with lots of guys with high paying career potential (e.g. engineering class), she can probably marry one of them and pursue whatever she wants. Guys will generally not do as well in the dating market if they have their mind set on being a househusband. They might find someone, but it will probably be quite a bit more difficult. I have no idea how much of an effect that would have and obviously there will be multiple reasons for the discrepancy. I know I wouldn't be doing software as a job if I had that option though, and I like programming! Like another commenter said, if "campground manager" paid as well, they'd probably do that instead.
- ivan_gammel 2y ago
  > I think saying women like her are enslaved is itself misogyny Fully agree. I would not change anything in my comment above nevertheless. It is not about the women who have and make the choice. We are not in the world yet, where this would be the default assumption.
  - ndriscoll 2y ago
    At least in the US, according to [0], around 67% of women with children under 18 who are not employed prefer that. Among women with children, a higher proportion of women who do work would prefer not to than the proportion of women who do not work and would prefer to. It appears that most women with children have the working status that they prefer, but if you had to guess that someone was unhappy about their situation, it would be a working mom. Additionally, most moms do not have a preference to work outside the home. Keep in mind this is after decades of messaging of the type I'm pointing out and people are exemplifying in this very thread after I pointed it out where women who stay at home are questioned about whether they're "accomplished" and generally looked down upon by the middle/upper middle class. [0] https://news.gallup.com/poll/267737/record-high-women-prefer-working-homemaking.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/267737/record-high-women-prefer...
    - ivan_gammel 2y ago
      > Among women with children, a higher proportion of women who do work would prefer not to than the proportion of women who do not work and would prefer to 1. Just a reminder: women who stay at home with children do work and it is wrong to say otherwise. 2. As I pointed out already numerous times here in other comments, those polls are just numbers. You cannot simply draw a conclusion that if there exists some gender-based preference, it’s ok. Without answers and analysis why it’s just another bad research. And there’s A LOT of reasons, why those numbers may not reflect happiness and accomplishment, but rather a safe choice and avoidance. Please, do the proper research. I don’t think you are adequately informed on this matter.
      - 2y ago