4 ms·

There's so much talk of replenishing gut biota, of changing its composition, but I still don't have a mental image of how easy and how fast that can be done. Is

by gniv 2y ago

There's so much talk of replenishing gut biota, of changing its composition, but I still don't have a mental image of how easy and how fast that can be done. Is it a matter of days? weeks? more?

r0fl 2y ago
How does one change the composition? A lot of research says that pre and probititics don’t get absorbed very well by the gut
- ljf 2y ago
  Prebiotics are generally sugars that are specifically chosen to not be absorbed by the gut, so that they can be food for the yeasts and microbes that live in your lower intestines. Probiotics are doses of the yeasts and microbes - and again you don't want these to be absorbed by the gut - they need to live on the gut walls and feed on your stools. But yes, I agree - research shows that only limited amounts of both of these will reach the lower intestine. BUT, once there they should multiply on the rich food source. With a small 5g bag of yeast, I can easily ferment a 25 litre bucket of wort to make beer (as long as no other bacteria or yeast get their first, that the wort isn't treated with something poisonous to yeast, that the temperature isn't too hot or too cold...)
  - alan-hn 2y ago
    Fecal transplants or probiotic enemas are a good way to bypass the upper GI
    - ljf 2y ago
      Totally, they sound gross, but already there is loads of positive research (and anecdotes) on the benefits.
- isoprophlex 2y ago
  Poop transplants. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_microbiota_transplant https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_microbiota_transplant
MarkMarine 2y ago
I've been reading about this for a while (and I didn't do a great job of collecting my sources to link here) but from what I understand as a layman, truly changing the composition of the gut involves killing the current population, transplanting a new population in from a healthy host (person, mouse, whatever species you're working with) and then suppress the immune system while the new population takes hold. It's dangerous because of the immune suppression, but the outcomes in mouse populations (and in extreme cases where they actually do it in humans) are incredible. There are less invasive methods being practiced that just involve putting a healthy gut population into a human's gut, and from what I've read it's still in the research phase. Evidence of curing obesity, curing IBS in mice. I haven't seen any studies that are statistically significant in humans yet, because this is still relatively new. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/25202-fecal-transplant https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/25202-fecal... There has also been some really interesting study of the brain-gut connection and the effect this microbe population has on mental health. Really interesting things where mice with aberrant gut microbiomes have "metal health conditions" (how ever you measure that in mice) and then have their vagus nerve (gut to brain, a huge nerve) cut. The outcomes were shocking, basically a curing of the condition. There is research here about humans: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9685564/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9685564/
- JohnBooty 2y ago
  "metal health conditions" (how ever you measure that in mice) I know cortisol levels are a way one can diagnose stress/anxiety in animals. (My vet said they look to that as a proxy for "is my animal in discomfort" at times)
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

by gniv 2y ago

There's so much talk of replenishing gut biota, of changing its composition, but I still don't have a mental image of how easy and how fast that can be done. Is it a matter of days? weeks? more?

r0fl 2y ago

How does one change the composition? A lot of research says that pre and probititics don’t get absorbed very well by the gut

ljf 2y ago
Prebiotics are generally sugars that are specifically chosen to not be absorbed by the gut, so that they can be food for the yeasts and microbes that live in your lower intestines. Probiotics are doses of the yeasts and microbes - and again you don't want these to be absorbed by the gut - they need to live on the gut walls and feed on your stools. But yes, I agree - research shows that only limited amounts of both of these will reach the lower intestine. BUT, once there they should multiply on the rich food source. With a small 5g bag of yeast, I can easily ferment a 25 litre bucket of wort to make beer (as long as no other bacteria or yeast get their first, that the wort isn't treated with something poisonous to yeast, that the temperature isn't too hot or too cold...)
- alan-hn 2y ago
  Fecal transplants or probiotic enemas are a good way to bypass the upper GI
  - ljf 2y ago
    Totally, they sound gross, but already there is loads of positive research (and anecdotes) on the benefits.
isoprophlex 2y ago
Poop transplants. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_microbiota_transplant https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_microbiota_transplant

MarkMarine 2y ago

I've been reading about this for a while (and I didn't do a great job of collecting my sources to link here) but from what I understand as a layman, truly changing the composition of the gut involves killing the current population, transplanting a new population in from a healthy host (person, mouse, whatever species you're working with) and then suppress the immune system while the new population takes hold. It's dangerous because of the immune suppression, but the outcomes in mouse populations (and in extreme cases where they actually do it in humans) are incredible. There are less invasive methods being practiced that just involve putting a healthy gut population into a human's gut, and from what I've read it's still in the research phase. Evidence of curing obesity, curing IBS in mice. I haven't seen any studies that are statistically significant in humans yet, because this is still relatively new. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/25202-fecal-transplant https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/25202-fecal... There has also been some really interesting study of the brain-gut connection and the effect this microbe population has on mental health. Really interesting things where mice with aberrant gut microbiomes have "metal health conditions" (how ever you measure that in mice) and then have their vagus nerve (gut to brain, a huge nerve) cut. The outcomes were shocking, basically a curing of the condition. There is research here about humans: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9685564/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9685564/

JohnBooty 2y ago
"metal health conditions" (how ever you measure that in mice) I know cortisol levels are a way one can diagnose stress/anxiety in animals. (My vet said they look to that as a proxy for "is my animal in discomfort" at times)

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]