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> Affirmative action makes minorities feel like they don't deserve to be there Does it? I see a lot of affirmative action victims saying that it _ought_ to ma

> Affirmative action makes minorities feel like they don't deserve to be there Does it? I see a lot of affirmative action victims saying that it _ought_ to make them feel that way, but I never hear that from affirmative action recipients.

influx 2y ago
You’ve never heard anyone in those groups have imposter syndrome? It’s very common.
- digging 2y ago
  Isn't imposter syndrome just... pretty common in any STEM field? Maybe especially in anyone who isn't a neurotypical cishet white man.
  - Jensson 2y ago
    You don't think affirmative action has anything to do with that? Affirmative action means you and everyone else there knows you had to pass a lower bar, of course that makes impostor syndrome worse.
    - lins1909 2y ago
      > Affirmative action means you and everyone else there knows you had to pass a lower bar, of course that makes impostor syndrome worse. No, it doesn't. But if that makes you feel better, I hope you continue telling yourself that.
      - commandlinefan 2y ago
        Wait, what? That's literally the definition.
        Larrikin 2y ago
        That's the made up definition of affirmative action, not the actual one.
    - digging 2y ago
      Calling it a lower bar is a completely disingenuous interpretation, when the reason for such policies in the first place is that the bar for entry is much higher for minority groups to be hired.
      - em-bee 2y ago
        true but the problem here is how the programs are perceived. even if i had to pass a higher bar to get into university, when i realize that the bar is lowered to get a job, then how i got into university doesn't really matter anymore to me or to my new colleagues. so all the problems that come with the bar being lowered still do apply
      - Ferret7446 2y ago
        It's not though? Discriminating based on minority status is illegal, and affirmative action is an explicit exception to allow discrimination (at least in education; in the private sector it should in theory still be illegal but it's not/rarely enforced).
        Slyfox33 2y ago
        "Discriminating based on minority status is illegal" Are you actually suggesting that there isn't discrimination in hiring? If its not a company policy then you wont be able to prove that you were discriminated against. I don't know how you can sit here and say it doesn't happen.
        digging 2y ago
        > It's not though? Discriminating based on minority status is illegal Hm, then I guess nobody does it.
        commandlinefan 2y ago
        Well, no... they do the opposite and they aren't exactly subtle or circumspect about it.
      - commandlinefan 2y ago
em-bee 2y ago
https://youtu.be/LKiBlGDfRU8?t=188 https://youtu.be/LKiBlGDfRU8?t=188 in this video here sabine hossenfelder explains the problem. the statement could be applied to any other marginalized group "I am against programs or positions that are exclusively for women.I think that treating women differently just reinforces the prejudice that women are less capable than men"
autoexec 2y ago
I have multiple friends who've told me that they very much wondered if they got a job just because they were a "diversity hire" and even more who were afraid that others would view them that way and resent them for it. I don't think that fear was irrational. None of them were ever confirmed "affirmative action recipients", but the fact that affirmative action and diversity quotas exist at all is enough to make them doubt themselves and be doubted by others.

influx 2y ago

You’ve never heard anyone in those groups have imposter syndrome? It’s very common.

digging 2y ago
Isn't imposter syndrome just... pretty common in any STEM field? Maybe especially in anyone who isn't a neurotypical cishet white man.
- Jensson 2y ago
  You don't think affirmative action has anything to do with that? Affirmative action means you and everyone else there knows you had to pass a lower bar, of course that makes impostor syndrome worse.
  - lins1909 2y ago
    > Affirmative action means you and everyone else there knows you had to pass a lower bar, of course that makes impostor syndrome worse. No, it doesn't. But if that makes you feel better, I hope you continue telling yourself that.
    - commandlinefan 2y ago
      Wait, what? That's literally the definition.
      - Larrikin 2y ago
        That's the made up definition of affirmative action, not the actual one.
  - digging 2y ago
    Calling it a lower bar is a completely disingenuous interpretation, when the reason for such policies in the first place is that the bar for entry is much higher for minority groups to be hired.
    - em-bee 2y ago
      true but the problem here is how the programs are perceived. even if i had to pass a higher bar to get into university, when i realize that the bar is lowered to get a job, then how i got into university doesn't really matter anymore to me or to my new colleagues. so all the problems that come with the bar being lowered still do apply
    - Ferret7446 2y ago
      It's not though? Discriminating based on minority status is illegal, and affirmative action is an explicit exception to allow discrimination (at least in education; in the private sector it should in theory still be illegal but it's not/rarely enforced).
      - Slyfox33 2y ago
        "Discriminating based on minority status is illegal" Are you actually suggesting that there isn't discrimination in hiring? If its not a company policy then you wont be able to prove that you were discriminated against. I don't know how you can sit here and say it doesn't happen.
      - digging 2y ago
        > It's not though? Discriminating based on minority status is illegal Hm, then I guess nobody does it.
        commandlinefan 2y ago
        Well, no... they do the opposite and they aren't exactly subtle or circumspect about it.
    - commandlinefan 2y ago

em-bee 2y ago

https://youtu.be/LKiBlGDfRU8?t=188 https://youtu.be/LKiBlGDfRU8?t=188 in this video here sabine hossenfelder explains the problem. the statement could be applied to any other marginalized group "I am against programs or positions that are exclusively for women.I think that treating women differently just reinforces the prejudice that women are less capable than men"

autoexec 2y ago

I have multiple friends who've told me that they very much wondered if they got a job just because they were a "diversity hire" and even more who were afraid that others would view them that way and resent them for it. I don't think that fear was irrational. None of them were ever confirmed "affirmative action recipients", but the fact that affirmative action and diversity quotas exist at all is enough to make them doubt themselves and be doubted by others.