5 ms·

Scientology is not regarded a religion everywhere. In Germany it is considered a cult instead and it is even on a government watchlist. As students we were warn

by ma2rten 14y ago

Scientology is not regarded a religion everywhere. In Germany it is considered a cult instead and it is even on a government watchlist. As students we were warned about it in school. EDIT: I was just looking at Scientology's (English) Wikipedia page and came across this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scientology_warning_leaflet.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scientology_warning_leafle... . I though it would illustrate my point. Those are three government-issued leaflets with the title "Protect Our Democracy". One is on organized crime, one on Islamic terrorism and one on Scientology.

sidcool 14y ago
In America here, it's a state recognized religion with a Church of their own. Hell, Tom Cruise is a Scientologist. That cult is a money hoarding organization. I wish this hack attack happened in America.
- slurgfest 14y ago
  Name a major religion which is not (or does not contain) money hoarding organizations
- drivingmenuts 14y ago
  Rescinding previous comment and dropping out of this argument. I don't have a dog in this hunt nor do I care to.
  - Karunamon 14y ago
    >Or are you operating on hearsay? Oh for pete's sake. Go read up on Lisa McPherson and Operation Snow White. There are plenty of legitimate and documented reasons to hate Scientology, not one of which is because they hoard money.
    - Karunamon 14y ago
      Aside: Let your comments stand and take your knocks. Deleting a comment after it's been responded to is weak.
- anamax 14y ago
  > In America here, it's a state recognized religion with a Church of their own. So what? There a lots of state recognized religions, and it doesn't mean much. (The state of CA recognizes weddings performed by folks who bought their "ministership" from an advert in Rolling Stone.) > Hell, Tom Cruise is a Scientologist. Again - so what?
  - sixcorners 14y ago
    The point is that it is regarded as a religion here whether Germany likes it or not.
    - darklajid 14y ago
      The point is still moot if we're talking about Austria (just like the reference of Germany was useless so is the US one). To add some real data: Over there it seems that this organization is tax-exempt, but not recognized as a church or religion. [1, found as reference on Wikipedia]: Sensitivity to and fears of Scientology in the country remains an issue. The Church of Scientology reported problems obtaining credit cards, and individual Scientologists experienced discrimination in hiring. However, Scientology leaders also noted that the Vienna Provincial Tax Authority granted them tax-exempt, non-profit status. Well.. Now this is a nice US centric view here that probably _is_ based on this stuff being a religion in the US after all. Scientology members being discriminated, a paragraph between a reports about Muslims and Jews. Hilarious. 1: Country Reports on Human Rights Practices, Austria http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2003/27825.htm http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2003/27825.htm
    - anamax 14y ago
      > The point is that it is regarded as a religion here whether Germany likes it or not. Again, so what? The French like Jerry Lewis. The Germans like David Hasselhoff. There are lots of facts, but few are actually "points".
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
StavrosK 14y ago
"Cult" just means "a religion I don't like".
- Spooky23 14y ago
  Usually people distinguish a cult from a mainstream religion based on the level of control that the movement exerts over its members.
  - StavrosK 14y ago
    Don't mainstream religions exert a lot of control over some of their members too? I'm not very comfortable with fundamentalists of any religion... I'm not defending Scientology, but the line between "cult" and "religion" seems a bit blurry.
    - saraid216 14y ago
      Most categories in sociology are blurry, because human beings are blurry things. This may help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociological_classifications_of_religious_movements http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociological_classifications_of...
      - StavrosK 14y ago
        That's very interesting, thanks. It seems to treat the classifications as a timeline of a religion (from birth/cult to establishment/religion), and not by control or whatnot...
        saraid216 14y ago
        If you click through to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_religious_movement#Charismatic_movements http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_religious_movement#Charisma... , it goes into some detail that doesn't explicitly talk about control, but if you're familiar with summaries of psychology literature, it's stated pretty baldly. You can also think of it in terms of 1 Corinthians 13:11. Maturity, and the turning of generations, does something to an organization. Christianity began as an apocalypse cult, after all, promising hope of the afterlife for the downtrodden; it wasn't until Constantine was converted that it started to learn how to be a state religion; and not until Martin Luther and Henry VII did it learn to be just a religion. (The exile into Babylon and the dissolution of the Caliphate had similar effects on Judaism and Islam.) In other words, they were forced to let go of their control simply because of historical circumstance. Straight through World War 2, the Vatican continued to exert a very strong influence on European nations... because the Pope was everyone's ambassador, even if he could no longer threaten excommunication with meaningful clout. Scientology has not had these experiences. It is young and not officially descended from any known religion, so "sect" would be an incorrect term except in cases where you consider the entire whole of Judaism or Christianity a sect. It is dominated by personality cults, from the original of L. Ron Hubbard to its scheme of hooking celebrities to be spokespersons.

by ma2rten 14y ago

sidcool 14y ago

In America here, it's a state recognized religion with a Church of their own. Hell, Tom Cruise is a Scientologist. That cult is a money hoarding organization. I wish this hack attack happened in America.

slurgfest 14y ago
Name a major religion which is not (or does not contain) money hoarding organizations
drivingmenuts 14y ago
Rescinding previous comment and dropping out of this argument. I don't have a dog in this hunt nor do I care to.
- Karunamon 14y ago
  >Or are you operating on hearsay? Oh for pete's sake. Go read up on Lisa McPherson and Operation Snow White. There are plenty of legitimate and documented reasons to hate Scientology, not one of which is because they hoard money.
  - Karunamon 14y ago
    Aside: Let your comments stand and take your knocks. Deleting a comment after it's been responded to is weak.
anamax 14y ago
> In America here, it's a state recognized religion with a Church of their own. So what? There a lots of state recognized religions, and it doesn't mean much. (The state of CA recognizes weddings performed by folks who bought their "ministership" from an advert in Rolling Stone.) > Hell, Tom Cruise is a Scientologist. Again - so what?
- sixcorners 14y ago
  The point is that it is regarded as a religion here whether Germany likes it or not.
  - darklajid 14y ago
    The point is still moot if we're talking about Austria (just like the reference of Germany was useless so is the US one). To add some real data: Over there it seems that this organization is tax-exempt, but not recognized as a church or religion. [1, found as reference on Wikipedia]: Sensitivity to and fears of Scientology in the country remains an issue. The Church of Scientology reported problems obtaining credit cards, and individual Scientologists experienced discrimination in hiring. However, Scientology leaders also noted that the Vienna Provincial Tax Authority granted them tax-exempt, non-profit status. Well.. Now this is a nice US centric view here that probably _is_ based on this stuff being a religion in the US after all. Scientology members being discriminated, a paragraph between a reports about Muslims and Jews. Hilarious. 1: Country Reports on Human Rights Practices, Austria http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2003/27825.htm http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2003/27825.htm
  - anamax 14y ago
    > The point is that it is regarded as a religion here whether Germany likes it or not. Again, so what? The French like Jerry Lewis. The Germans like David Hasselhoff. There are lots of facts, but few are actually "points".
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]

StavrosK 14y ago

"Cult" just means "a religion I don't like".

Spooky23 14y ago
Usually people distinguish a cult from a mainstream religion based on the level of control that the movement exerts over its members.
- StavrosK 14y ago
  Don't mainstream religions exert a lot of control over some of their members too? I'm not very comfortable with fundamentalists of any religion... I'm not defending Scientology, but the line between "cult" and "religion" seems a bit blurry.
  - saraid216 14y ago
    Most categories in sociology are blurry, because human beings are blurry things. This may help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociological_classifications_of_religious_movements http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociological_classifications_of...
    - StavrosK 14y ago
      That's very interesting, thanks. It seems to treat the classifications as a timeline of a religion (from birth/cult to establishment/religion), and not by control or whatnot...
      - saraid216 14y ago
        If you click through to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_religious_movement#Charismatic_movements http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_religious_movement#Charisma... , it goes into some detail that doesn't explicitly talk about control, but if you're familiar with summaries of psychology literature, it's stated pretty baldly. You can also think of it in terms of 1 Corinthians 13:11. Maturity, and the turning of generations, does something to an organization. Christianity began as an apocalypse cult, after all, promising hope of the afterlife for the downtrodden; it wasn't until Constantine was converted that it started to learn how to be a state religion; and not until Martin Luther and Henry VII did it learn to be just a religion. (The exile into Babylon and the dissolution of the Caliphate had similar effects on Judaism and Islam.) In other words, they were forced to let go of their control simply because of historical circumstance. Straight through World War 2, the Vatican continued to exert a very strong influence on European nations... because the Pope was everyone's ambassador, even if he could no longer threaten excommunication with meaningful clout. Scientology has not had these experiences. It is young and not officially descended from any known religion, so "sect" would be an incorrect term except in cases where you consider the entire whole of Judaism or Christianity a sect. It is dominated by personality cults, from the original of L. Ron Hubbard to its scheme of hooking celebrities to be spokespersons.