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Shipping packages is actually pretty environmentally friendly. The alternative would have been to drive a 2000 lb vehicle a couple of miles to pick up a 1 lb ga

Shipping packages is actually pretty environmentally friendly. The alternative would have been to drive a 2000 lb vehicle a couple of miles to pick up a 1 lb garment bag, making 0.05% of the total weight the payload. The other 99.95% of the fuel is going towards moving deadweight back and forth. Shipping usually aims to hit anywhere from 10 - 90% payload, greatly increasing the efficiency by which carbon is used. I did some rough back-of-the-envelope calculations a while back that showed driving to the grocery store used roughly as much carbon as shipping everything you were buying from New Zealand.

morsch 14y ago
Of course what's even more efficient is shipping to a network of distribution centers which are in walking distance for most people, reachable by mass transit by others and reachable during trips that would have happened anyway for the rest.
- culturestate 14y ago
  Do you mean that we would pick up from a large warehouse, or that the warehouse would ship orders to central distribution points?
  - EvilTerran 14y ago
    I think morsch means supermarkets, farmers' markets, high streets, and shopping malls.
- sneak 14y ago
  You assume that waking productive human time (spent walking to/from the distribution center, or waiting for mass transit connections) is worth absolutely nothing. It's the scarcest resource of all of this.
  - morsch 14y ago
    I didn't assume that, I simply didn't discuss it. I was replying to the grandparent which refers to environmental issues.
treyp 14y ago
really? aren't most trips to a store to buy multiple items? a drive to a nearby store is as bad as shipping the product from amazon's warehouse to your address? also, packaging. both the process and the materials.
- InclinedPlane 14y ago
  Do you go to the store to pick up items for everyone in your neighborhood? If not then you're shockingly less efficient than UPS.
  - treyp 14y ago
    yes, but obviously that's not the comparison. shipping services have much longer distances to travel, they have the overhead of the entire system (trucks or planes for the long haul, trucks driving to your delivery address and from the pickup address, the associated costs of all the time spent by all the people involved) to overcome. i'm not sure who exactly wins in the end without real numbers. and again, packaging should not be underestimated either.
    - InclinedPlane 14y ago
      Your goods come from somewhere regardless, and whether they are delivered to a store or to your home they have to travel that distance just the same. But with delivery trucks the miles driven by the trucks are amortized over all of the deliveries made.

morsch 14y ago

Of course what's even more efficient is shipping to a network of distribution centers which are in walking distance for most people, reachable by mass transit by others and reachable during trips that would have happened anyway for the rest.

culturestate 14y ago
Do you mean that we would pick up from a large warehouse, or that the warehouse would ship orders to central distribution points?
- EvilTerran 14y ago
  I think morsch means supermarkets, farmers' markets, high streets, and shopping malls.
sneak 14y ago
You assume that waking productive human time (spent walking to/from the distribution center, or waiting for mass transit connections) is worth absolutely nothing. It's the scarcest resource of all of this.
- morsch 14y ago
  I didn't assume that, I simply didn't discuss it. I was replying to the grandparent which refers to environmental issues.

treyp 14y ago

really? aren't most trips to a store to buy multiple items? a drive to a nearby store is as bad as shipping the product from amazon's warehouse to your address? also, packaging. both the process and the materials.

InclinedPlane 14y ago
Do you go to the store to pick up items for everyone in your neighborhood? If not then you're shockingly less efficient than UPS.
- treyp 14y ago
  yes, but obviously that's not the comparison. shipping services have much longer distances to travel, they have the overhead of the entire system (trucks or planes for the long haul, trucks driving to your delivery address and from the pickup address, the associated costs of all the time spent by all the people involved) to overcome. i'm not sure who exactly wins in the end without real numbers. and again, packaging should not be underestimated either.
  - InclinedPlane 14y ago
    Your goods come from somewhere regardless, and whether they are delivered to a store or to your home they have to travel that distance just the same. But with delivery trucks the miles driven by the trucks are amortized over all of the deliveries made.