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"...the crew did not die in the tank explosion and subsequent ripping-apart of the orbiter by air loads. ...The crew was still alive in the orbiter cabin until

"...the crew did not die in the tank explosion and subsequent ripping-apart of the orbiter by air loads. ...The crew was still alive in the orbiter cabin until it finally hit the sea, which is about a 200-gee stop, since it hit dead broadside." Anyone around at the time vividly remembers this horrible tragedy. My memory was unexpectedly reinforced only days later when I came across a memorial to the crew in the Smithsonian museum. Perhaps those in NASA were aware that the crew were (or would have assumed to have been) alive until they hit the water but if I recall that knowledge wasn't available to the GP. I assumed, like I suppose many, the crew were killed outright at the time of disintegration and that would have been the most merciful outcome. That it wasn't even now fills me with horror and I shudder to think about it. The crew's final moments must have been sheer terror.

deleted 2y ago
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KineticLensman 2y ago
> I assumed, like I suppose many, the crew were killed outright at the time of disintegration and that would have been the most merciful outcome The breakup was certainly slower and less directly destructive for the crew than the Columbia. Challenger essentially broke up due to aerodynamic stresses as the entire stack tumbled when the SRB broke loose (the stack rotated so the orbiter was on top, at Mach 1.92). The massive visible 'explosion' was actually the fuel from the external tank igniting as a result of the tank breaking up mechanically, not the initial cause of the orbiter's destruction. The separated but mainly intact crew compartment then continued upwards ballistically before beginning its long fall back to the ocean. In contrast, due to earlier launch-time damage to its wing, Columbia entered a flat spin while re-entering hypersonically at Mach 15. Complete break-up was about 20 seconds after the last comms from the crew. By this time the crew were already dead, due to physical trauma from being violently buffeted around - e.g. their non-conforming 'fishbowl' helmets offered no real head-protection in the event of violent movement.
- hilbert42 2y ago
  Thanks for that. I presume on both accounts NASA is much more conversant with the details than are publicly available. That's how it ought to be out of respect for the families.
  - KineticLensman 2y ago
    > I presume on both accounts NASA is much more conversant with the details than are publicly available. That's how it ought to be out of respect for the families. Yes, and I agree. The Columbia break-up left fragments scattered over a massive area and from the fact that parts of spacesuits, belts, seats etc are scattered sometimes miles apart, it's clear that the breakup was massively destructive. But in the otherwise very detailed reports, the 'medical' details are (rightly, I think) redacted, as you say, out of respect.
gwd 2y ago
> That it wasn't even now fills me with horror and I shudder to think about it. The crew's final moments must have been sheer terror. Having been in a situation where I thought I was about to die (head-on collision on an icy country highway), that wasn't my experience. When I saw the other car in my lane I was hit with a wall of adrenaline; I experienced the "bullet time" that you see sometimes in movies, where tiiime slooowwws doooowwwwnnn; and I felt like I was processing things calmly and rationally, thinking about what they tell you to do in that situation in driver's training, and even when it became clear that there was nothing I could do to avoid the oncoming car, I simply thought, "I wonder what it's like to die?" (Now having been in a few more accidents, and experiencing "crumple zones", I'd probably just be thinking about whether the car would be totaled.) The professional astronauts will have been put through loads of training for all kinds of contingencies; there's a very good chance they had similar responses, and a decent chance that McAuliffe did too.
- deleted 2y ago
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- MadnessASAP 2y ago
  They did, many of the controls in the recovered cabin were found in positions that correspond with the crew following emergency procedures. Obviously with the rest of the orbiter missing those procedures were useless, as would've been anything else they attempted. Which makes it little more then a sad footnote to the whole thing, there was nothing the crew could've done, but they died knowing they were in big trouble and were trying to restore control of a scrap of their former vehicle.
dghlsakjg 2y ago
The crew were likely alive, but not conscious. The crew capsule experienced high g force on multiple axis' pretty quickly after the explosion. That's enough force to put even the best fighter pilots to sleep VERY quickly. Nasa also concluded that the emergency air system wouldn't have been sufficient to maintain consciousness with a complete loss of cabin pressure at their altitude. (https://www.nasa.gov/missions/space-shuttle/sts-51l/challenger-crew-report/ https://www.nasa.gov/missions/space-shuttle/sts-51l/challeng...). The emergency air system was designed for an evacuation on the ground, not at altitude.

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KineticLensman 2y ago

> I assumed, like I suppose many, the crew were killed outright at the time of disintegration and that would have been the most merciful outcome The breakup was certainly slower and less directly destructive for the crew than the Columbia. Challenger essentially broke up due to aerodynamic stresses as the entire stack tumbled when the SRB broke loose (the stack rotated so the orbiter was on top, at Mach 1.92). The massive visible 'explosion' was actually the fuel from the external tank igniting as a result of the tank breaking up mechanically, not the initial cause of the orbiter's destruction. The separated but mainly intact crew compartment then continued upwards ballistically before beginning its long fall back to the ocean. In contrast, due to earlier launch-time damage to its wing, Columbia entered a flat spin while re-entering hypersonically at Mach 15. Complete break-up was about 20 seconds after the last comms from the crew. By this time the crew were already dead, due to physical trauma from being violently buffeted around - e.g. their non-conforming 'fishbowl' helmets offered no real head-protection in the event of violent movement.

hilbert42 2y ago
Thanks for that. I presume on both accounts NASA is much more conversant with the details than are publicly available. That's how it ought to be out of respect for the families.
- KineticLensman 2y ago
  > I presume on both accounts NASA is much more conversant with the details than are publicly available. That's how it ought to be out of respect for the families. Yes, and I agree. The Columbia break-up left fragments scattered over a massive area and from the fact that parts of spacesuits, belts, seats etc are scattered sometimes miles apart, it's clear that the breakup was massively destructive. But in the otherwise very detailed reports, the 'medical' details are (rightly, I think) redacted, as you say, out of respect.

gwd 2y ago

> That it wasn't even now fills me with horror and I shudder to think about it. The crew's final moments must have been sheer terror. Having been in a situation where I thought I was about to die (head-on collision on an icy country highway), that wasn't my experience. When I saw the other car in my lane I was hit with a wall of adrenaline; I experienced the "bullet time" that you see sometimes in movies, where tiiime slooowwws doooowwwwnnn; and I felt like I was processing things calmly and rationally, thinking about what they tell you to do in that situation in driver's training, and even when it became clear that there was nothing I could do to avoid the oncoming car, I simply thought, "I wonder what it's like to die?" (Now having been in a few more accidents, and experiencing "crumple zones", I'd probably just be thinking about whether the car would be totaled.) The professional astronauts will have been put through loads of training for all kinds of contingencies; there's a very good chance they had similar responses, and a decent chance that McAuliffe did too.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
MadnessASAP 2y ago
They did, many of the controls in the recovered cabin were found in positions that correspond with the crew following emergency procedures. Obviously with the rest of the orbiter missing those procedures were useless, as would've been anything else they attempted. Which makes it little more then a sad footnote to the whole thing, there was nothing the crew could've done, but they died knowing they were in big trouble and were trying to restore control of a scrap of their former vehicle.

dghlsakjg 2y ago

The crew were likely alive, but not conscious. The crew capsule experienced high g force on multiple axis' pretty quickly after the explosion. That's enough force to put even the best fighter pilots to sleep VERY quickly. Nasa also concluded that the emergency air system wouldn't have been sufficient to maintain consciousness with a complete loss of cabin pressure at their altitude. (https://www.nasa.gov/missions/space-shuttle/sts-51l/challenger-crew-report/ https://www.nasa.gov/missions/space-shuttle/sts-51l/challeng...). The emergency air system was designed for an evacuation on the ground, not at altitude.