2 ms·

France and the UK have nukes, is that not sufficient? It seems to be getting the job done.

InDubioProRubio 2y ago
Will it help Poland, Latvia, Finland, Ukraine, Estonia, Georgia, if Europe and its values, are that easy deterred? Those security guarantees are almost worthless now, that two defectors have started a new great game.
- throw092309 2y ago
  > that two defectors have started a new great game There was never the "Great Game". Look into Russian archives, they never played something like that. There was no great plan to capture India. It was all self inflicted paranoia and projection of UK colonial elites!
  - elefanten 2y ago
    The competitive, zero-sum conquests of two empires were very real, as were the sphere of influence negotiations. But that’s not the point either way. As I’m reading gp, the point is that if the leaders of the international order want to prevent nuclear proliferation (a worthy goal), they’ll have to do better to protect Russia and China’s neighbors from their territorial aggression. Else, the border states won’t have a better choice than deterrence if they want to survive. How many Ukraines and Taiwans will it take before a dozen new hands hold their own red buttons?
    - throw092309 2y ago
      > The competitive, zero-sum conquests Controlling country like Afghanistan is not zerosum game. It is a blackhole that burns money, resources and men! There was never great plan to conquer India (as British believed). > leaders of the international order want to prevent nuclear proliferation "Leaders" are happy if they find their way from podium. Current situation is more similar to Cuban missile crisis, not some great chess game. Sadly we do not have anyone like Kennedy!
  - relaxing 2y ago
    It’s true there was no game. The power-mad expansion and conquest was not motivated by anything like fun.
zatetK 2y ago
France precisely has nukes because de Gaulle did not believe that the U.S. would actually retaliate in case Paris was nuked. In turn, I highly doubt that France would retaliate for Germany if Berlin was nuked. This may seem outrageous for people reading this for the first time, but it is perfectly historical.
sva_ 2y ago
I think if your country doesn't have nukes, it is merely a gametheoritic poker chip for those who do.

Will it help Poland, Latvia, Finland, Ukraine, Estonia, Georgia, if Europe and its values, are that easy deterred? Those security guarantees are almost worthless now, that two defectors have started a new great game.

throw092309 2y ago
> that two defectors have started a new great game There was never the "Great Game". Look into Russian archives, they never played something like that. There was no great plan to capture India. It was all self inflicted paranoia and projection of UK colonial elites!
- elefanten 2y ago
  The competitive, zero-sum conquests of two empires were very real, as were the sphere of influence negotiations. But that’s not the point either way. As I’m reading gp, the point is that if the leaders of the international order want to prevent nuclear proliferation (a worthy goal), they’ll have to do better to protect Russia and China’s neighbors from their territorial aggression. Else, the border states won’t have a better choice than deterrence if they want to survive. How many Ukraines and Taiwans will it take before a dozen new hands hold their own red buttons?
  - throw092309 2y ago
    > The competitive, zero-sum conquests Controlling country like Afghanistan is not zerosum game. It is a blackhole that burns money, resources and men! There was never great plan to conquer India (as British believed). > leaders of the international order want to prevent nuclear proliferation "Leaders" are happy if they find their way from podium. Current situation is more similar to Cuban missile crisis, not some great chess game. Sadly we do not have anyone like Kennedy!
- relaxing 2y ago
  It’s true there was no game. The power-mad expansion and conquest was not motivated by anything like fun.

zatetK 2y ago

France precisely has nukes because de Gaulle did not believe that the U.S. would actually retaliate in case Paris was nuked. In turn, I highly doubt that France would retaliate for Germany if Berlin was nuked. This may seem outrageous for people reading this for the first time, but it is perfectly historical.

sva_ 2y ago

I think if your country doesn't have nukes, it is merely a gametheoritic poker chip for those who do.