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Britain has the world’s biggest empire… in part it did so because it industrialized first, but also it was able to industrialize first because of the empire. Th

Britain has the world’s biggest empire… in part it did so because it industrialized first, but also it was able to industrialize first because of the empire. The two are deeply interlinked

KingOfCoders 2y ago
The East India Company is from 1600. The Watt Steam Engine is from 1765.
- Arn_Thor 2y ago
  So what? My point is that the two processes were interlinked and fed off each other. The industrial revolution was helped by empire. But the fact that it took place in the UK helped it expand and deepen that very empire faster than the competition. The Maxim Gun, at the bleeding edge of technology in 1884, was made in London and helped Britain subjugate African countries and nudge out other imperial powers.
  - KingOfCoders 2y ago
    You seem to be more knowledgeable, do you think the Maxim Gun kept the empire or expanded it? If so, into which countries do you think the Maxim Gun helped to expand?
    - defrost 2y ago
      The Maxim saw its heyday in "Africa' (region) which was being carved up by European powers who were marking out countries for European maps and stomping across the borders of pre existing kingdoms. The "Scramble for Africa" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scramble_for_Africa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scramble_for_Africa hit peak pitch following 1870 or so and saw 90% of Africa "claimed" by 1914, the Great War and the rise of the Vickers Machine Gun (which evolved from the Maxim).
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        Also Samoa.
        defrost 2y ago
        Makes me wonder just how relatively valuable copra and cocoa bean were to the US and Europe if outside resource lust underpinned an eight year civil war way out in the Pacific. The Germans, in particular, began to show great commercial interest in the Samoan Islands, especially on the island of Upolu, where German firms monopolised copra and cocoa bean processing. ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoa leading to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoan_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoan_Civil_War
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > wonder just how relatively valuable copra and cocoa bean were Profit is revenue minus cost. Cost of colonisation is vastly reduced if the target nation is infighting. Cocoa was absolutely valuable, but Samoa’s attractiveness may have also been in its inability to defend itself. (Particularly against European weapons.)
        defrost 2y ago
        Particularly against European machinations. There's a robust pattern of increased infighting wherever the European colonists went .. almost as if they delibrately sowed discontent and sold weapons at discount to all sides.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - defrost 2y ago
    Let's not forget FinTech and Lawfare evolving in parallel here either. Stock Exchanges evolved from Dutch and London Coffee Houses and the Maxim Gun is also famous in cementing the "No Compete" clause into law ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenfelt_v_Maxim_Nordenfelt_Guns_and_Ammunition_Co_Ltd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenfelt_v_Maxim_Nordenfelt_...
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > the Maxim Gun is also famous in cementing the "No Compete" clause into law Nordenfelt cemented severavility; non-competes were already commonplace. (In that case, the blue pencil was used to restrict the scope of the non-compete. But that’s not why it’s important.)
      - defrost 2y ago
        I'll pay that, it sounds as if you're across the history and evolution of Lawfare which was a main thrust of my comment - a number of strands developed alongside colonialism and industrialisation.
- tim333 2y ago
  I was watching a Sabine Hossenfelder youtube "Capitalism is good. Let me explain" where she argues advances in capitalism predated and caused the industrial revolution and scientific progress. It's an interesting hypothesis. Relevant bit in vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRPHp2EjNR8&t=275s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRPHp2EjNR8&t=275s The first British government bonds and companies going public were about 1693 and a little after and we had a proper market bubble and crash in 1720 so that stuff was well developed by the time of steam engines.

Britain has the world’s biggest empire… in part it did so because it industrialized first, but also it was able to industrialize first because of the empire. The two are deeply interlinked

KingOfCoders 2y ago

The East India Company is from 1600. The Watt Steam Engine is from 1765.

Arn_Thor 2y ago
So what? My point is that the two processes were interlinked and fed off each other. The industrial revolution was helped by empire. But the fact that it took place in the UK helped it expand and deepen that very empire faster than the competition. The Maxim Gun, at the bleeding edge of technology in 1884, was made in London and helped Britain subjugate African countries and nudge out other imperial powers.
- KingOfCoders 2y ago
  You seem to be more knowledgeable, do you think the Maxim Gun kept the empire or expanded it? If so, into which countries do you think the Maxim Gun helped to expand?
  - defrost 2y ago
    The Maxim saw its heyday in "Africa' (region) which was being carved up by European powers who were marking out countries for European maps and stomping across the borders of pre existing kingdoms. The "Scramble for Africa" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scramble_for_Africa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scramble_for_Africa hit peak pitch following 1870 or so and saw 90% of Africa "claimed" by 1914, the Great War and the rise of the Vickers Machine Gun (which evolved from the Maxim).
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      Also Samoa.
      - defrost 2y ago
        Makes me wonder just how relatively valuable copra and cocoa bean were to the US and Europe if outside resource lust underpinned an eight year civil war way out in the Pacific. The Germans, in particular, began to show great commercial interest in the Samoan Islands, especially on the island of Upolu, where German firms monopolised copra and cocoa bean processing. ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoa leading to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoan_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoan_Civil_War
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > wonder just how relatively valuable copra and cocoa bean were Profit is revenue minus cost. Cost of colonisation is vastly reduced if the target nation is infighting. Cocoa was absolutely valuable, but Samoa’s attractiveness may have also been in its inability to defend itself. (Particularly against European weapons.)
        defrost 2y ago
        Particularly against European machinations. There's a robust pattern of increased infighting wherever the European colonists went .. almost as if they delibrately sowed discontent and sold weapons at discount to all sides.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- defrost 2y ago
  Let's not forget FinTech and Lawfare evolving in parallel here either. Stock Exchanges evolved from Dutch and London Coffee Houses and the Maxim Gun is also famous in cementing the "No Compete" clause into law ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenfelt_v_Maxim_Nordenfelt_Guns_and_Ammunition_Co_Ltd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenfelt_v_Maxim_Nordenfelt_...
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > the Maxim Gun is also famous in cementing the "No Compete" clause into law Nordenfelt cemented severavility; non-competes were already commonplace. (In that case, the blue pencil was used to restrict the scope of the non-compete. But that’s not why it’s important.)
    - defrost 2y ago
      I'll pay that, it sounds as if you're across the history and evolution of Lawfare which was a main thrust of my comment - a number of strands developed alongside colonialism and industrialisation.
tim333 2y ago
I was watching a Sabine Hossenfelder youtube "Capitalism is good. Let me explain" where she argues advances in capitalism predated and caused the industrial revolution and scientific progress. It's an interesting hypothesis. Relevant bit in vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRPHp2EjNR8&t=275s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRPHp2EjNR8&t=275s The first British government bonds and companies going public were about 1693 and a little after and we had a proper market bubble and crash in 1720 so that stuff was well developed by the time of steam engines.