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Another big difference between transit in Tokyo versus transit in California: in Tokyo many of the lines are owned and operated by private companies. JR East u

Another big difference between transit in Tokyo versus transit in California: in Tokyo many of the lines are owned and operated by private companies. JR East used to be part of Japan National Railways, but the Japanese government privatized JNR in 1987, and it was split into several regional companies. There are other private companies that operate commuter rail lines, such as Tokyu (which played a major role in the development of Shibuya as well as suburban areas in Yokohama such as Tama Plaza), Odakyu, Keio, and Keikyu. The subway lines tend to be publicly-owned, however, such as the Tokyo Metro subway system, the Toei subway system, and the Yokohama Municipal Subway. Many of these subway lines seamlessly flow into privately-owned and operated lines from the companies previously mentioned; for example, the Tokyu Den-en-Toshi line, which connects the suburban areas of Machida and Yokohama to Shibuya, becomes the Tokyo Metro Hanzomon Line once it reaches Shibuya. Many of the private train companies have other businesses. For example, Tokyu Group (https://tokyugroup.jp/en https://tokyugroup.jp/en) operates many companies, such as department stores (including the famous Shibuya 109), hotels, grocery stores, and even a hospital. Tokyu used to own a fantastic chain of stores called Tokyu Hands, which is hard to classify but sells a variety of goods, but Tokyu sold it a few years ago.

Avicebron 2y ago
It's important to note that private companies in Japan didn't always function as fully independent entities from the government (obviously there is going to be rent-seeking as almost always happens), there is a pretty complicated history of post ww2 industrial + government growth that had some form of public good (or social contract whichever you prefer) baked into it. It's interesting that you mention it was privatized in 1987, which corresponds to the economic bubble that was happening from 1986 to 1991, which burst leaving a so called "lost generation" of people growing up in basically stagnation. And from what I understand the Japanese economy is still not the rocket ship it once was..
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  JNR failed mostly because it was struggling from high construction debts of Shinkansen and urban rail projects. One important part of the privatization was that the government took on this debt load to unshackle the newly private companies. Also this hasn’t happened evenly. Of the seven private JRs, one (Kyushu) is treading water and three are losing money (Hokkaido, Shikoku and Freight)
  - Avicebron 2y ago
    > One important part of the privatization was that the government took on this debt load to unshackle the newly private companies. Which certainly in some accounting systems be seen as a bailout or form of government support for these newly privatized companies, which the government probably wouldn't do if they didn't see these rail lines as a form of public good (or at least necessity). I think another user mentioned a little down in this thread that there is a network of mutually supportive companies that are built out along the tracks, shops, hotels, restaurants, all of which benefit from the rail lines supplying customers, and in turn benefit the rail line by providing reasons to use their services outside of a strict A -> B commute. I wonder if location/population has anything to do with both Kyushu and Hokkaido finding themselves in financial trouble. Idk, it seems like fairly straightforward from a smooth-brained layman's non-politician perspective (mine), hey people we have a choice: we get clean on time trains where you can grab a cheap cheesesteak on you way back from work, or we get mobile homeless shelters that drop you off next to the needle exchange van in Berkeley
    - bobthepanda 2y ago
      The other important bits to have functioning rail is that * Japanese highways are heavily tolled and parking in choice areas is expensive. In the US parking is mandated at such high levels that it is given away for free; in Japan parking is entirely market provided and you cannot buy a car without proof of a reserved space which you must purchase * Japanese commuting is heavily subsidized to the tune of 100,000JPY a month pretax, so consumers have more spending power specifically on transportation. This is at least one of the theorized causes of Japanese economic centralization since you can’t realize the full value of the benefit outside the megacities.
      - kalleboo 2y ago
        > Japanese highways are heavily tolled As an example. For me to get to the nearest large city, it's a 4 hour drive, 7000 yen in highway tolls and around 3000 yen in gas. Or a 2 hour Shinkansen ride for 9000 yen. If you're a solo businessman the choice is a no-brainer. If you're traveling with the family, then you're still gonna drive.
devilsbabe 2y ago
Is that why the name changed to simply Hands. Makes sense but I hadn't realized the company was sold. I haven't noticed it affect the stores in any way yet.
- linguae 2y ago
  Yes, once Tokyu sold Tokyu Hands the store dropped the Tokyu name. I also haven’t noticed any changes in terms of product selection or customer service, with the caveat that I’m a tourist who goes to Japan 2-3 times per year, not a resident, so there may be changes I’m unaware of.

Avicebron 2y ago

It's important to note that private companies in Japan didn't always function as fully independent entities from the government (obviously there is going to be rent-seeking as almost always happens), there is a pretty complicated history of post ww2 industrial + government growth that had some form of public good (or social contract whichever you prefer) baked into it. It's interesting that you mention it was privatized in 1987, which corresponds to the economic bubble that was happening from 1986 to 1991, which burst leaving a so called "lost generation" of people growing up in basically stagnation. And from what I understand the Japanese economy is still not the rocket ship it once was..

bobthepanda 2y ago
JNR failed mostly because it was struggling from high construction debts of Shinkansen and urban rail projects. One important part of the privatization was that the government took on this debt load to unshackle the newly private companies. Also this hasn’t happened evenly. Of the seven private JRs, one (Kyushu) is treading water and three are losing money (Hokkaido, Shikoku and Freight)
- Avicebron 2y ago
  > One important part of the privatization was that the government took on this debt load to unshackle the newly private companies. Which certainly in some accounting systems be seen as a bailout or form of government support for these newly privatized companies, which the government probably wouldn't do if they didn't see these rail lines as a form of public good (or at least necessity). I think another user mentioned a little down in this thread that there is a network of mutually supportive companies that are built out along the tracks, shops, hotels, restaurants, all of which benefit from the rail lines supplying customers, and in turn benefit the rail line by providing reasons to use their services outside of a strict A -> B commute. I wonder if location/population has anything to do with both Kyushu and Hokkaido finding themselves in financial trouble. Idk, it seems like fairly straightforward from a smooth-brained layman's non-politician perspective (mine), hey people we have a choice: we get clean on time trains where you can grab a cheap cheesesteak on you way back from work, or we get mobile homeless shelters that drop you off next to the needle exchange van in Berkeley
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    The other important bits to have functioning rail is that * Japanese highways are heavily tolled and parking in choice areas is expensive. In the US parking is mandated at such high levels that it is given away for free; in Japan parking is entirely market provided and you cannot buy a car without proof of a reserved space which you must purchase * Japanese commuting is heavily subsidized to the tune of 100,000JPY a month pretax, so consumers have more spending power specifically on transportation. This is at least one of the theorized causes of Japanese economic centralization since you can’t realize the full value of the benefit outside the megacities.
    - kalleboo 2y ago
      > Japanese highways are heavily tolled As an example. For me to get to the nearest large city, it's a 4 hour drive, 7000 yen in highway tolls and around 3000 yen in gas. Or a 2 hour Shinkansen ride for 9000 yen. If you're a solo businessman the choice is a no-brainer. If you're traveling with the family, then you're still gonna drive.

devilsbabe 2y ago

Is that why the name changed to simply Hands. Makes sense but I hadn't realized the company was sold. I haven't noticed it affect the stores in any way yet.

linguae 2y ago
Yes, once Tokyu sold Tokyu Hands the store dropped the Tokyu name. I also haven’t noticed any changes in terms of product selection or customer service, with the caveat that I’m a tourist who goes to Japan 2-3 times per year, not a resident, so there may be changes I’m unaware of.