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How do you know there's a health impact, or that this is a dangerous product? The article has nothing supporting either of those claims in it. The oil they us

by ars 2y ago

How do you know there's a health impact, or that this is a dangerous product? The article has nothing supporting either of those claims in it. The oil they use in refrigerators stinks to high heaven, and that's about it. "POE that has been exposed to moisture can emit a strong odor which I would say is closer to dirty socks".

throwaway346434 2y ago
https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/poison/refrigerant-poisoning https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/poison/refrigerant...
- ars 2y ago
  Those symptoms are mixing refrigerants, fumigants, and the frostbite from refrigerants expanding. It means nothing in the context of this article. The refrigerant at hand here is R-134a and has zero health risks, in fact it's used in inhalers.
gpm 2y ago
> the company wasn't able to tell him what the chemical was or whether it could be harmful. Odd how you are confident that you know what the chemical is when the company that manufactured the product doesn't. And you don't need to know that there's a health impact to decline this settlement, you need to not know that there isn't. If there's even a small risk it's an extremely lowball offer. Especially given that according to another commenter here Australian law likely entitles them to that much without the NDA and release of liability.
- zihotki 2y ago
  The company knows what is in there. The company doesn't know what exactly they smelled since that smell is a product of chemical reaction between refrigerant, oil, plastic and electronics. The refrigerant itself, as it's mentioned in the article, doesn't smell.
  - joecool1029 2y ago
    Depending on the refrigerant used it might smell and be substantially more dangerous if it combusts. R1234yf turns into carbonyl fluoride when ignited, which is close to phosgene the WW1 poison gas.
    - gruez 2y ago
      >more dangerous if it combusts. R1234yf turns into carbonyl fluoride when ignited, which is close to phosgene the WW1 poison gas. Sounds scary, but is there any reason to believe this actually would occur? For instance, wikipedia lists "a propellant for the delivery of pharmaceuticals (e.g. bronchodilators), wine cork removers, gas dusters ("canned air")" as other uses for it. If it's really as dangerous at it's made out to be, shouldn't we be hearing more about this causing issues from other uses?
      - stahtops 2y ago
        Maybe Samsung should FA the unit and tell us?
      - joecool1029 2y ago
        > Sounds scary, but is there any reason to believe this actually would occur? A shitty Samsung fridge with a stalling compressor causing heat to build up? Frayed wires? Lots of possibilities. I researched this for the first time after I had a compressed air get ignited by a spark while I was cleaning an appliance. It is absolutely a noxious smell and I had to evacuate the room.
    - zihotki 2y ago
      As far as I know, that may be false for other than EU markets, R1234yf is used in airconditioners, not fridges. And it requires about 900C to combust. If it reached such temperatures in my house then carbonyl fluoride would be the last concern I would worry about.
      - joecool1029 2y ago
tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
"Dirty socks" is commonly how fume events on aircraft are described to smell, which is when oil from the engine makes it into the air conditioning system. The health effects aren't fully understood, with claims ranging from them being harmless to causing severe neurological defects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fume_event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fume_event

by ars 2y ago

throwaway346434 2y ago

https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/poison/refrigerant-poisoning https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/poison/refrigerant...

ars 2y ago
Those symptoms are mixing refrigerants, fumigants, and the frostbite from refrigerants expanding. It means nothing in the context of this article. The refrigerant at hand here is R-134a and has zero health risks, in fact it's used in inhalers.

gpm 2y ago

> the company wasn't able to tell him what the chemical was or whether it could be harmful. Odd how you are confident that you know what the chemical is when the company that manufactured the product doesn't. And you don't need to know that there's a health impact to decline this settlement, you need to not know that there isn't. If there's even a small risk it's an extremely lowball offer. Especially given that according to another commenter here Australian law likely entitles them to that much without the NDA and release of liability.

zihotki 2y ago
The company knows what is in there. The company doesn't know what exactly they smelled since that smell is a product of chemical reaction between refrigerant, oil, plastic and electronics. The refrigerant itself, as it's mentioned in the article, doesn't smell.
- joecool1029 2y ago
  Depending on the refrigerant used it might smell and be substantially more dangerous if it combusts. R1234yf turns into carbonyl fluoride when ignited, which is close to phosgene the WW1 poison gas.
  - gruez 2y ago
    >more dangerous if it combusts. R1234yf turns into carbonyl fluoride when ignited, which is close to phosgene the WW1 poison gas. Sounds scary, but is there any reason to believe this actually would occur? For instance, wikipedia lists "a propellant for the delivery of pharmaceuticals (e.g. bronchodilators), wine cork removers, gas dusters ("canned air")" as other uses for it. If it's really as dangerous at it's made out to be, shouldn't we be hearing more about this causing issues from other uses?
    - stahtops 2y ago
      Maybe Samsung should FA the unit and tell us?
    - joecool1029 2y ago
      > Sounds scary, but is there any reason to believe this actually would occur? A shitty Samsung fridge with a stalling compressor causing heat to build up? Frayed wires? Lots of possibilities. I researched this for the first time after I had a compressed air get ignited by a spark while I was cleaning an appliance. It is absolutely a noxious smell and I had to evacuate the room.
  - zihotki 2y ago
    As far as I know, that may be false for other than EU markets, R1234yf is used in airconditioners, not fridges. And it requires about 900C to combust. If it reached such temperatures in my house then carbonyl fluoride would be the last concern I would worry about.
    - joecool1029 2y ago

tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago

"Dirty socks" is commonly how fume events on aircraft are described to smell, which is when oil from the engine makes it into the air conditioning system. The health effects aren't fully understood, with claims ranging from them being harmless to causing severe neurological defects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fume_event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fume_event