4 ms·

It has nothing to do with poverty, and everything to do with some people prioritizing money for themselves over the externalities. "If I make $100, and some st

It has nothing to do with poverty, and everything to do with some people prioritizing money for themselves over the externalities. "If I make $100, and some stranger who I don't know loses $10,000...well, sucks to be that stranger, he should have paid a security guard to watch his wires" is the mindset of a whole load of people in the world. Hell, I mean, there are people out there who will kill you for your $100 phone if they have the chance.

insane_dreamer 2y ago
> It has nothing to do with poverty Strong disagree. If the gains are high enough, lots of people who aren't poor will steal. But if the gains are low, then there's a risk-to-reward ratio that comes into play and, generally speaking, the poorer you are, the high ratio you're willing to put up with.
- octopoc 2y ago
  Really? I'm skeptical, unless you categorize someone stealing to fuel their drug addiction, as "due to poverty." What about people who steal because it's fun or exciting and not boring, like an actual job? I had a Hispanic friend like that once--he didn't even need the money, he stole just because it gave him an adrenalin rush and because of the crowd.
  - insane_dreamer 2y ago
    > What about people who steal because it's fun or exciting and not boring, like an actual job? Sure, there are those people too, but even then the risk-to-reward factor will come into play, it's just that those people are willing to take a higher risk not because of the monetary reward but because of the reward of the "thrill".
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    You'll always have several categories of people stealing. Parent's point is that poverty will lower the threshold for some of these categories. People who wouldn't care that much about money if they had enough to get by will get into stealing, not necessarily to get rich but just to get back to a state they're comfortable with.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- seoulmetro 2y ago
  This concept only works if the poor people risk it for the gains. That's becoming not the case anymore with most theft in the modern world.
Rinzler89 2y ago
>some people prioritizing money for themselves over the externalities You mean exactly like the employees, execs and shareholders of the big publicly traded companies many people here work for? But it's evil when the homeless crackhead in your neighborhood smashes your car window for drug money, but not the Google/Microsoft exec who pushes ads with malware or addictive drugs on your kids for a career advancement and a nice house in California, that's just called innovation, where the former person is the looser and the latter the winner of our capitalist system. Many profitable industries have been built on privatizing the profits and socializing the externalities on the environment, society, people, etc. Oil & gas, mining, motor vehicles, fast fashion, ads, gambling, food, pharma, etc. Usually on less developed countries, and it only makes the news when those externalities finally reach us here in the rich western countries.
- gmd63 2y ago
  This is the core source of disillusionment. It is wrong for both, but it is more impactful to society when corporations do this. Therefore it should be society's priority to raise the stakes of running a corporation, not hand out lazy penalties that continue to incentivize strategic negligence. More regulation, regular enforcement of law, and more responsibility in general for the people and firms that wield the most influence will prevent many otherwise great citizens from deciding not to play the game of civilized life. IRS getting massive returns from cracking down on wealthy tax cheats is one of many good steps in this direction under the current US administration.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    >More regulation That goes against easy money for corporations.

insane_dreamer 2y ago

> It has nothing to do with poverty Strong disagree. If the gains are high enough, lots of people who aren't poor will steal. But if the gains are low, then there's a risk-to-reward ratio that comes into play and, generally speaking, the poorer you are, the high ratio you're willing to put up with.

octopoc 2y ago
Really? I'm skeptical, unless you categorize someone stealing to fuel their drug addiction, as "due to poverty." What about people who steal because it's fun or exciting and not boring, like an actual job? I had a Hispanic friend like that once--he didn't even need the money, he stole just because it gave him an adrenalin rush and because of the crowd.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  > What about people who steal because it's fun or exciting and not boring, like an actual job? Sure, there are those people too, but even then the risk-to-reward factor will come into play, it's just that those people are willing to take a higher risk not because of the monetary reward but because of the reward of the "thrill".
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  You'll always have several categories of people stealing. Parent's point is that poverty will lower the threshold for some of these categories. People who wouldn't care that much about money if they had enough to get by will get into stealing, not necessarily to get rich but just to get back to a state they're comfortable with.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
seoulmetro 2y ago
This concept only works if the poor people risk it for the gains. That's becoming not the case anymore with most theft in the modern world.

Rinzler89 2y ago

>some people prioritizing money for themselves over the externalities You mean exactly like the employees, execs and shareholders of the big publicly traded companies many people here work for? But it's evil when the homeless crackhead in your neighborhood smashes your car window for drug money, but not the Google/Microsoft exec who pushes ads with malware or addictive drugs on your kids for a career advancement and a nice house in California, that's just called innovation, where the former person is the looser and the latter the winner of our capitalist system. Many profitable industries have been built on privatizing the profits and socializing the externalities on the environment, society, people, etc. Oil & gas, mining, motor vehicles, fast fashion, ads, gambling, food, pharma, etc. Usually on less developed countries, and it only makes the news when those externalities finally reach us here in the rich western countries.

gmd63 2y ago
This is the core source of disillusionment. It is wrong for both, but it is more impactful to society when corporations do this. Therefore it should be society's priority to raise the stakes of running a corporation, not hand out lazy penalties that continue to incentivize strategic negligence. More regulation, regular enforcement of law, and more responsibility in general for the people and firms that wield the most influence will prevent many otherwise great citizens from deciding not to play the game of civilized life. IRS getting massive returns from cracking down on wealthy tax cheats is one of many good steps in this direction under the current US administration.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  >More regulation That goes against easy money for corporations.