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I guess we solid fund the scrap yards taking this material and punish them too, since they enable it. I suggest we jail the execs and managers there for not put

by ok_dad 2y ago

I guess we solid fund the scrap yards taking this material and punish them too, since they enable it. I suggest we jail the execs and managers there for not putting systems in place to prevent paying for stolen materials. I bet this would stop it really quick, and we only have to prosecute a few people rather than every thief, because of supply and demand; reducing demand immensely will make it not worth stealing infrastructure.

gjsman-1000 2y ago
That’s a straw man because it shifts the blame onto the objects, and victims, of the theft rather than the thief. It doesn’t matter what it is, crime is typically opportunistic. Next week, it will be smashing houses to steal jewelry. A month from now, it will be catalytic converters. A year, robbing laptops and getting decryption keys at gunpoint. Who needs to be punished here? The thief. Who needs to change? The thief. Who needs to be taken out of society if they voluntarily choose to not change? The thief.
- ok_dad 2y ago
  Scrapyards are what we’re talking about here, don’t expand into other arguments needlessly. We’re not talking about jewelry or electronics at the moment. Do you think it’s acceptable to take 300 feet of commercial copper wiring from a random dude and pay him for it without question? Punish the thieves, but also roll them over to testify against the obvious criminality happening in the scrapyards. You’re laying all the blame on the small thieves, but this kind of massive theft requires a supporting demand. Targeting one side is this equation doesn’t work.
  - gjsman-1000 2y ago
    > Do you think it’s acceptable to take 300 feet of commercial copper wiring from a random dude and pay him for it without question? Well, here’s the problem with that: You’re showing that the scrapyards are acting as though we are living in a high-trust society, and act as though everything was legit. Your proposal is to once again force the scrapyard to change and act like a potential customer is a thief. This is dangerous logic, because consider: - Should computers have mandatory spyware? Many of their users do illegal things, some morally repugnant. - Should stores check your ID at the door, even Walmart? That would surely stop thieves, it’s their own fault if they don’t. My point is that there are no shortages of industries which have criminal customers. Even the company hosting your little web server. I don’t like scrapyards; but I believe that it is the job of police to allow society to function like we can trust each other. If that means the scrapyards are a little trashy; so be it.
    - ok_dad 2y ago
      You started with telling me not to straw man, then you did it. What does computer spyware and Walmart have to do with scrapyards? You’re also pre-supposing that scrapyards are innocent victims of those thieves passing off goods as their own, but this scale of theft-to-scrap absolutely requires criminality of both sides of the transaction.
- deleted 2y ago
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by ok_dad 2y ago

gjsman-1000 2y ago

That’s a straw man because it shifts the blame onto the objects, and victims, of the theft rather than the thief. It doesn’t matter what it is, crime is typically opportunistic. Next week, it will be smashing houses to steal jewelry. A month from now, it will be catalytic converters. A year, robbing laptops and getting decryption keys at gunpoint. Who needs to be punished here? The thief. Who needs to change? The thief. Who needs to be taken out of society if they voluntarily choose to not change? The thief.

ok_dad 2y ago
Scrapyards are what we’re talking about here, don’t expand into other arguments needlessly. We’re not talking about jewelry or electronics at the moment. Do you think it’s acceptable to take 300 feet of commercial copper wiring from a random dude and pay him for it without question? Punish the thieves, but also roll them over to testify against the obvious criminality happening in the scrapyards. You’re laying all the blame on the small thieves, but this kind of massive theft requires a supporting demand. Targeting one side is this equation doesn’t work.
- gjsman-1000 2y ago
  > Do you think it’s acceptable to take 300 feet of commercial copper wiring from a random dude and pay him for it without question? Well, here’s the problem with that: You’re showing that the scrapyards are acting as though we are living in a high-trust society, and act as though everything was legit. Your proposal is to once again force the scrapyard to change and act like a potential customer is a thief. This is dangerous logic, because consider: - Should computers have mandatory spyware? Many of their users do illegal things, some morally repugnant. - Should stores check your ID at the door, even Walmart? That would surely stop thieves, it’s their own fault if they don’t. My point is that there are no shortages of industries which have criminal customers. Even the company hosting your little web server. I don’t like scrapyards; but I believe that it is the job of police to allow society to function like we can trust each other. If that means the scrapyards are a little trashy; so be it.
  - ok_dad 2y ago
    You started with telling me not to straw man, then you did it. What does computer spyware and Walmart have to do with scrapyards? You’re also pre-supposing that scrapyards are innocent victims of those thieves passing off goods as their own, but this scale of theft-to-scrap absolutely requires criminality of both sides of the transaction.
deleted 2y ago
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