4 ms·

Spain sentences 15 schoolchildren over AI-generated naked images

27 points by isaacfrond 2y ago

frakt0x90 2y ago
Good! Tools like this will only get easier to use and more convincing. AI is always going to outpace regulations but we need to try to prevent abuse like this and much more. People have killed themselves over leaked pictures like this.
- akira2501 2y ago
  Is there any reason someone couldn't make these drawings by hand? If so, wouldn't that already be a crime? So what are specific regulations going to do here?
  - vinni2 2y ago
    It’s less about generating those images and more about distributing them.
  - tropdrop 2y ago
    > '“It’s a shock when you see it,” said the woman from Almendralejo. “The image is completely realistic … If I didn’t know my daughter’s body, I would have thought that image was real.”' Several reasons: 1) time – a fraction of the time per victim means exponentially many more 2) skill – no photorealistic drawing skill required 3) a live referent – a genuine (here, shockingly genuine seeming) nude photograph implies that someone undressed and let themselves be photographed 4) even in the presence of a referent, a drawing is not a carbon copy ("freeze frame") of a moment in real life, and is proof of nothing
    - godelski 2y ago
      I agree with all these points, but I think the gp's question still stands. Their question is about how you properly regulate it. Is it specific to computer generated? Specific to "AI generated?" How is the detection done? Is it illegal but no one will check if you do it on your own personal computer but never distribute? Or are regulations going to be created in the same spirit of Chat Control and requiring monitoring of output to detect the generation of child pornography? I think there are deeper questions here that can have many adverse consequences. There is no perfect solution here. If you ban the software I'm pretty sure that'll just end up creating a large market for generating this kind of material (there's already a decent market for photo nudifiers and these seem to be advertised in quite a number of places where I'm pretty certain this is already illegal). Spying on people and their outputs is not a great solution either, it is easy to bypass, and generates new security holes that can and will put children at risk too. But also we don't want these types of images to be floating around and it definitely does real harm to the people being nudified. But what is the solution here? Regulation seems very difficult and I think we should take the question seriously. No matter what we do, there is some compromise. Even inaction compromises. So what are we willing to give up and to reduce the problem by how much?
nashashmi 2y ago
> Police identified several teenagers aged between 13 and 15 as being responsible for generating and sharing the images.
bell-cot 2y ago
HN: Might you know of any country with even a half-decent policy to deal with these kinds of cases? (And what's that policy?) I could see putting it on the kids' permanent record - both police & school - but that's probably of minimal deterrent value for a large fraction of young kidiots*. Not that catching the perp's is any sort of sure thing, either. It'd be lovely if one could "re-train" youth culture, to greatly reduce the impact/thrill of the crime. I'd guess that that's the only payoff for 98% of perps. But in a world where (by many accounts) kids are often routinely browsing "extreme" porn years before many of their parents are comfortable with them being taught anything more adult than "when a man and a woman love each over very much..." - it's hard to imagine that the school or authorities could actually do that. (Any thoughts?) *Yes, like most old men, I was once a young idiot. No offenses remotely resembling this...but that was back in the days when a line-printer-on-green-bar-paper dirty image was still cutting-edge smut.
- basisword 2y ago
  I think cases like these do the trick. When I was in school cell phones had just become a thing. I know of two separate incidents which were referred to the police. It gave the kids involved a pretty serious scare and then the police gave a talk at the school and put the fear in everyone else. Kids are dumb but not dumb enough to commit serious crimes, once they actually understand it's a crime that would be taken seriously.
  - namaria 2y ago
    Defrauding people online is hugely popular amongst minors in the Netherlands...
    - isaacfrond 2y ago
      hugely popular? <citation wanted>
      - namaria 2y ago
        https://nos.nl/artikel/2456409-dit-zijn-de-jongeren-achter-online-oplichting-het-is-een-soort-hype https://nos.nl/artikel/2456409-dit-zijn-de-jongeren-achter-o... https://nos.nl/artikel/2456322-jongeren-vaker-betrokken-bij-fraude-en-cybercrime-politie-maakt-zich-zorgen https://nos.nl/artikel/2456322-jongeren-vaker-betrokken-bij-... https://www.trouw.nl/opinie/daders-van-online-oplichting-moeten-slachtoffer-in-de-ogen-zien~bd9afd86/ https://www.trouw.nl/opinie/daders-van-online-oplichting-moe... https://www.politie.nl/nieuws/2022/april/4/05-trendbeeld-2022-gepubliceerd-eenheid-amsterdam.html https://www.politie.nl/nieuws/2022/april/4/05-trendbeeld-202...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
grecy 2y ago
It's going to get really interesting when AI starts making questionable images unprompted to do so.
fiso64 2y ago
>Each of the defendants was handed a year’s probation and ordered to attend classes on gender and equality awareness Sounds like it has absolutely nothing to do with gender inequality and everything to do with a teenager's spiking hormones.
- nashashmi 2y ago
  Gender awareness. Aka gender ethics. Aka being a gentleman.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
narag 2y ago
In Spain minors hardly get any time even for serious offenses. Just read after the headline...

27 points by isaacfrond 2y ago

Good! Tools like this will only get easier to use and more convincing. AI is always going to outpace regulations but we need to try to prevent abuse like this and much more. People have killed themselves over leaked pictures like this.

akira2501 2y ago
Is there any reason someone couldn't make these drawings by hand? If so, wouldn't that already be a crime? So what are specific regulations going to do here?
- vinni2 2y ago
  It’s less about generating those images and more about distributing them.
- tropdrop 2y ago
  > '“It’s a shock when you see it,” said the woman from Almendralejo. “The image is completely realistic … If I didn’t know my daughter’s body, I would have thought that image was real.”' Several reasons: 1) time – a fraction of the time per victim means exponentially many more 2) skill – no photorealistic drawing skill required 3) a live referent – a genuine (here, shockingly genuine seeming) nude photograph implies that someone undressed and let themselves be photographed 4) even in the presence of a referent, a drawing is not a carbon copy ("freeze frame") of a moment in real life, and is proof of nothing
  - godelski 2y ago
    I agree with all these points, but I think the gp's question still stands. Their question is about how you properly regulate it. Is it specific to computer generated? Specific to "AI generated?" How is the detection done? Is it illegal but no one will check if you do it on your own personal computer but never distribute? Or are regulations going to be created in the same spirit of Chat Control and requiring monitoring of output to detect the generation of child pornography? I think there are deeper questions here that can have many adverse consequences. There is no perfect solution here. If you ban the software I'm pretty sure that'll just end up creating a large market for generating this kind of material (there's already a decent market for photo nudifiers and these seem to be advertised in quite a number of places where I'm pretty certain this is already illegal). Spying on people and their outputs is not a great solution either, it is easy to bypass, and generates new security holes that can and will put children at risk too. But also we don't want these types of images to be floating around and it definitely does real harm to the people being nudified. But what is the solution here? Regulation seems very difficult and I think we should take the question seriously. No matter what we do, there is some compromise. Even inaction compromises. So what are we willing to give up and to reduce the problem by how much?

nashashmi 2y ago

> Police identified several teenagers aged between 13 and 15 as being responsible for generating and sharing the images.

bell-cot 2y ago

HN: Might you know of any country with even a half-decent policy to deal with these kinds of cases? (And what's that policy?) I could see putting it on the kids' permanent record - both police & school - but that's probably of minimal deterrent value for a large fraction of young kidiots*. Not that catching the perp's is any sort of sure thing, either. It'd be lovely if one could "re-train" youth culture, to greatly reduce the impact/thrill of the crime. I'd guess that that's the only payoff for 98% of perps. But in a world where (by many accounts) kids are often routinely browsing "extreme" porn years before many of their parents are comfortable with them being taught anything more adult than "when a man and a woman love each over very much..." - it's hard to imagine that the school or authorities could actually do that. (Any thoughts?) *Yes, like most old men, I was once a young idiot. No offenses remotely resembling this...but that was back in the days when a line-printer-on-green-bar-paper dirty image was still cutting-edge smut.

basisword 2y ago
I think cases like these do the trick. When I was in school cell phones had just become a thing. I know of two separate incidents which were referred to the police. It gave the kids involved a pretty serious scare and then the police gave a talk at the school and put the fear in everyone else. Kids are dumb but not dumb enough to commit serious crimes, once they actually understand it's a crime that would be taken seriously.
- namaria 2y ago
  Defrauding people online is hugely popular amongst minors in the Netherlands...
  - isaacfrond 2y ago
    hugely popular? <citation wanted>
    - namaria 2y ago
      https://nos.nl/artikel/2456409-dit-zijn-de-jongeren-achter-online-oplichting-het-is-een-soort-hype https://nos.nl/artikel/2456409-dit-zijn-de-jongeren-achter-o... https://nos.nl/artikel/2456322-jongeren-vaker-betrokken-bij-fraude-en-cybercrime-politie-maakt-zich-zorgen https://nos.nl/artikel/2456322-jongeren-vaker-betrokken-bij-... https://www.trouw.nl/opinie/daders-van-online-oplichting-moeten-slachtoffer-in-de-ogen-zien~bd9afd86/ https://www.trouw.nl/opinie/daders-van-online-oplichting-moe... https://www.politie.nl/nieuws/2022/april/4/05-trendbeeld-2022-gepubliceerd-eenheid-amsterdam.html https://www.politie.nl/nieuws/2022/april/4/05-trendbeeld-202...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

grecy 2y ago

It's going to get really interesting when AI starts making questionable images unprompted to do so.

fiso64 2y ago

>Each of the defendants was handed a year’s probation and ordered to attend classes on gender and equality awareness Sounds like it has absolutely nothing to do with gender inequality and everything to do with a teenager's spiking hormones.

nashashmi 2y ago
Gender awareness. Aka gender ethics. Aka being a gentleman.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

narag 2y ago

In Spain minors hardly get any time even for serious offenses. Just read after the headline...