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Where I qualified, there’s a mandatory speed limit of 45mph on all roads (even motorways) a year after qualifying. When I was finally free of this I had absolut

Where I qualified, there’s a mandatory speed limit of 45mph on all roads (even motorways) a year after qualifying. When I was finally free of this I had absolutely zero respect for why speed can be dangerous and how. The rules had created the incredibly dangerous combination of experience driving but no experience driving at speed, and teenager brain. Shackles off, I drove at 60mph on country roads. It was always fine! Just like when I did 45mph everywhere! Until it rained, and at a tight corner I nearly wrapped myself around a tree. I didn’t fully appreciate the speeds I was going to be doing because I never was trained at them. I had no idea how it actually felt and how to understand when I could use speed and when I could lay off, because the limit was there. It was so suffocating that I never really experienced understeer or circumstances where I was in danger, because the mollycoddled experience hid me from understanding what those dangers are and how to anticipate and prevent them. Limiting speed is an answer, but I don’t really think it’s a good answer. The most dangerous crashes (rural) will still happen and be easily fatal at 70mph. Trainee pilots will get put in dangerous feeling situations all the time; the instructor can put the plane into a stall or a dive - a terrifying situation that you should never put yourself in in the first place - and teach you how to recover. I always thought driving instruction could do with something like that, because while learning to recover a plane is a lesson in and of itself, experiencing that sinking feeling and imagining it in circumstances where you’re under less control is a crucial lesson and disincentive. Instead, youths experience that lesson when they see a rapidly approaching tree or brick wall instead of a tire wall.

Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
Personally, I think it's way too easy to get a license in the USA. In many states, driver's ed isn't even mandatory, so people get taught by their parents, which leads to massive gaps in education and in many cases, incorrect driving habits getting passed down between generations. For example, a friend of mine had his mom tell him to just stay in the left lane on the highway if his exit isn't coming up, training him to be a passing lane camper. Not only should driver's ed be mandatory, but it should include a LOT more hands-on driving in bad situations, not to mention make them do something like an emergency stop test in both dry and wet conditions so they can understand the increased stopping distance and potential loss of control when slamming the brakes on water. I'd even like them make drivers do a basic slalom course in both a small sedan or hatchback and a large SUV so they can possibly get an appreciation for different handling. My local raceway has a car control course for training people how to control a skid [0]. I think this kind of training should be a mandatory part of earning a license. [0] https://www.prodrive.net/car-control-and-defensive-driving-course https://www.prodrive.net/car-control-and-defensive-driving-c...
- seabird 2y ago
  I can't agree with this enough. If you could just drive at 55mph in a straight line everywhere with nothing in your way, current education would be fine, but that's not reality. Part of driver's training should involve you driving a vehicle hard (autocross, slalom, etc), preferably of multiple different sizes/configurations so you can see the differences in handling. I know that idea will make people squeamish, but people panic in dangerous situations and do crazy shit like turn their wheel full lock and lock up the brakes because they actually have zero idea what that results in. On a similar note, maintenance should be mandatory training, as well. Basic ability to evaluate brakes, tires, suspension, etc. should be a given. I live in a state without inspections and the number of people whose reaction to metal-on-rotor in their brakes being "teehee whoops!" is shocking. If you can't afford the maintenance, that's fair enough in the sense that you need a vehicle to live in much of the US, but you should at least know the state of your vehicle and what that means when you're driving it.
  - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
    > I know that idea will make people squeamish, but people panic in dangerous situations and do crazy shit like turn their wheel full lock and lock up the brakes because they actually have zero idea what that results in. Yeah...people argue over whether to "steer into" or "steer out" of a skid, and what gets me is that sometimes, both people mean the same thing but are calling it something different, and the reality is that it depends on the skid. Every driver should know the difference between understeer and oversteer. Understeer? Straighten the wheel. If you have ABS, continue holding the brake, otherwise lighten up the brake pressure so the front tires can regain grip and steer the car. Oversteer? Forget arguing about steering into/out of the skid, and instead think about pointing the front tires in the direction you want to go. More importantly, DON'T slam the brakes! Any braking action will take weight off the rear tires and make the oversteer WORSE. Braking during oversteer is how drifters increase drift angle. If you're trying to straighten out, that's not what you want! But the squeamishness, yeah...I suggested to my wife that these courses should be a requirement, and she thought it'd be too dangerous. I kept saying, in a large flat concrete pad with no walls (or very soft walls), there's no danger. She wasn't convinced. I think she was worried about cars flipping over from sliding, and I said that it's impossible to make anything that isn't a tall SUV roll from just aggressive steering, and even the tall SUVs don't typically roll. When they do, they get really bad safety reviews.
leereeves 2y ago
I've often thought the same is true of most well-intentioned efforts to protect young people - young people still have to learn the same lessons later. But I was most stuck by your first sentence: > Where I qualified, there’s a mandatory speed limit of 45mph on all roads (even motorways) a year after qualifying. That sounds terrifying and dangerous! Aren't the other cars on a motorway there speeding past at 70mph+?
- cmcaleer 2y ago
  Yep! Gotta white knuckle while huge trucks overtake you.

Sohcahtoa82 2y ago

Personally, I think it's way too easy to get a license in the USA. In many states, driver's ed isn't even mandatory, so people get taught by their parents, which leads to massive gaps in education and in many cases, incorrect driving habits getting passed down between generations. For example, a friend of mine had his mom tell him to just stay in the left lane on the highway if his exit isn't coming up, training him to be a passing lane camper. Not only should driver's ed be mandatory, but it should include a LOT more hands-on driving in bad situations, not to mention make them do something like an emergency stop test in both dry and wet conditions so they can understand the increased stopping distance and potential loss of control when slamming the brakes on water. I'd even like them make drivers do a basic slalom course in both a small sedan or hatchback and a large SUV so they can possibly get an appreciation for different handling. My local raceway has a car control course for training people how to control a skid [0]. I think this kind of training should be a mandatory part of earning a license. [0] https://www.prodrive.net/car-control-and-defensive-driving-course https://www.prodrive.net/car-control-and-defensive-driving-c...

seabird 2y ago
I can't agree with this enough. If you could just drive at 55mph in a straight line everywhere with nothing in your way, current education would be fine, but that's not reality. Part of driver's training should involve you driving a vehicle hard (autocross, slalom, etc), preferably of multiple different sizes/configurations so you can see the differences in handling. I know that idea will make people squeamish, but people panic in dangerous situations and do crazy shit like turn their wheel full lock and lock up the brakes because they actually have zero idea what that results in. On a similar note, maintenance should be mandatory training, as well. Basic ability to evaluate brakes, tires, suspension, etc. should be a given. I live in a state without inspections and the number of people whose reaction to metal-on-rotor in their brakes being "teehee whoops!" is shocking. If you can't afford the maintenance, that's fair enough in the sense that you need a vehicle to live in much of the US, but you should at least know the state of your vehicle and what that means when you're driving it.
- Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
  > I know that idea will make people squeamish, but people panic in dangerous situations and do crazy shit like turn their wheel full lock and lock up the brakes because they actually have zero idea what that results in. Yeah...people argue over whether to "steer into" or "steer out" of a skid, and what gets me is that sometimes, both people mean the same thing but are calling it something different, and the reality is that it depends on the skid. Every driver should know the difference between understeer and oversteer. Understeer? Straighten the wheel. If you have ABS, continue holding the brake, otherwise lighten up the brake pressure so the front tires can regain grip and steer the car. Oversteer? Forget arguing about steering into/out of the skid, and instead think about pointing the front tires in the direction you want to go. More importantly, DON'T slam the brakes! Any braking action will take weight off the rear tires and make the oversteer WORSE. Braking during oversteer is how drifters increase drift angle. If you're trying to straighten out, that's not what you want! But the squeamishness, yeah...I suggested to my wife that these courses should be a requirement, and she thought it'd be too dangerous. I kept saying, in a large flat concrete pad with no walls (or very soft walls), there's no danger. She wasn't convinced. I think she was worried about cars flipping over from sliding, and I said that it's impossible to make anything that isn't a tall SUV roll from just aggressive steering, and even the tall SUVs don't typically roll. When they do, they get really bad safety reviews.

leereeves 2y ago

I've often thought the same is true of most well-intentioned efforts to protect young people - young people still have to learn the same lessons later. But I was most stuck by your first sentence: > Where I qualified, there’s a mandatory speed limit of 45mph on all roads (even motorways) a year after qualifying. That sounds terrifying and dangerous! Aren't the other cars on a motorway there speeding past at 70mph+?

cmcaleer 2y ago
Yep! Gotta white knuckle while huge trucks overtake you.