4 ms·

Asking this question since the first password manager

figmert 2y ago
Password managers are very different. The details get encrypted using a passphrase, and only the encrypted data gets sent to the password manager. You don't have to trust the backend unless the frontend is changed to send non-encrypted data and/or your passphrase.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  You have to trust the frontend though. And where did you get that from?
  - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
    And even if you audited its code, would you re-audit it if that code changed?
    - repelsteeltje 2y ago
      Contrary to what crypto fantastics might have you believe, software eco systems are always built on trust. Audits are but a means to try champion that trust. And, indeed by no means a silver bullet at that.
      - GTP 2y ago
        > software eco systems are always built on trust. Yes but, depending on how the ecosystem is built, the amount of trust needed can be smaller or greater. Reality isn't black or white, we also have shades and colors.
      - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
        Of course. I'd just rather trust many people narrowly rather than trusting a few people with everything. And the people who can push updates to password manager front ends... we're trusting them with everything. It's a situation which calls for a bit of extra diligence.
  - GTP 2y ago
    I use KeepassXC and synchronize the encrypted database across my devices using my own Nextcloud instance. But even if I used a mainstream cloud provider, that wouldn't matter since the db is encrypted and decrypted locally. Regarding trusting the frontend, in my case I just need to check that KeepassXC itself isn't sending data around. Which I admit I didn't do so far, but in my view the alternative of reusing password is much more likely to get you in trouble compared to the likelihood of KeepassXC sending your data to a tird party without anyone noticing.
JoshuaRogers 2y ago
You might consider 1Password. They don’t have the key so they effectively only see an all of the data in encrypted form, not even revealing the site, if I recall. They have some fascinating papers about it, if I recall.
- playingalong 2y ago
  Yet they are the same org who develop and release the client software, which obviously has access to plain text values.
- SahAssar 2y ago
  That's standard for all password managers IIRC. If they can get your into your vault without your master secret then it is a bad password manager. What has happened to some password managers though is that they don't store the metadata encrypted (like username, website name, etc.) so that leaks have revealed which sites you use but I don't think any decent password manager has leaked passwords without a client being hacked, right?
ta8903 2y ago
First cloud-based* password manager.

Password managers are very different. The details get encrypted using a passphrase, and only the encrypted data gets sent to the password manager. You don't have to trust the backend unless the frontend is changed to send non-encrypted data and/or your passphrase.

SoftTalker 2y ago
You have to trust the frontend though. And where did you get that from?
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  And even if you audited its code, would you re-audit it if that code changed?
  - repelsteeltje 2y ago
    Contrary to what crypto fantastics might have you believe, software eco systems are always built on trust. Audits are but a means to try champion that trust. And, indeed by no means a silver bullet at that.
    - GTP 2y ago
      > software eco systems are always built on trust. Yes but, depending on how the ecosystem is built, the amount of trust needed can be smaller or greater. Reality isn't black or white, we also have shades and colors.
    - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
      Of course. I'd just rather trust many people narrowly rather than trusting a few people with everything. And the people who can push updates to password manager front ends... we're trusting them with everything. It's a situation which calls for a bit of extra diligence.
- GTP 2y ago
  I use KeepassXC and synchronize the encrypted database across my devices using my own Nextcloud instance. But even if I used a mainstream cloud provider, that wouldn't matter since the db is encrypted and decrypted locally. Regarding trusting the frontend, in my case I just need to check that KeepassXC itself isn't sending data around. Which I admit I didn't do so far, but in my view the alternative of reusing password is much more likely to get you in trouble compared to the likelihood of KeepassXC sending your data to a tird party without anyone noticing.

JoshuaRogers 2y ago

You might consider 1Password. They don’t have the key so they effectively only see an all of the data in encrypted form, not even revealing the site, if I recall. They have some fascinating papers about it, if I recall.

playingalong 2y ago
Yet they are the same org who develop and release the client software, which obviously has access to plain text values.
SahAssar 2y ago
That's standard for all password managers IIRC. If they can get your into your vault without your master secret then it is a bad password manager. What has happened to some password managers though is that they don't store the metadata encrypted (like username, website name, etc.) so that leaks have revealed which sites you use but I don't think any decent password manager has leaked passwords without a client being hacked, right?

ta8903 2y ago

First cloud-based* password manager.