6 ms·

Couldn't a security conscious user just use their own APs/Router?

by cheeze 2y ago

nehal3m 2y ago
Sure, but then a forgotten password is your problem.
- jjk166 2y ago
  Honestly it would never even occur to me to call my ISP to help if I'd forgotten my wifi password. Also I feel like if you are concerned about forgetting your wifi password you'd probably just keep the one that's written on the device (and which is probably quite a bit more secure than the password you'd come up with yourself).
  - renewiltord 2y ago
    Xfinity these days will have the tech set up your WiFi with your password. It's an integrated device so he'll set up the cable internet and then your WiFi. Monkeybrains is all "you're set up!" and then you add your own WiFi router. Sonic has you set up your own WiFi. AT&T has the WiFi password printed on the device along with the admin password. That's my experience with ISPs in SF. It's clear that many people don't buy Internet access. They buy "WiFi" which is that Xfinity integrated service. The components don't matter.
  - jasonjayr 2y ago
    I'm certain that nearly most, if not all users on hacker news have a pretty solid mental model of the basics of how internet connection works, and the responsibilities between the computer or device, wifi, home router, ISP, and internet web sites or other services. But I've assisted people who's mental model is simply "Verizon put this box in my home and now I have internet". Who panic when a site doesn't load, and will call the first person they think is responsible for the problem. (typically, the company that gave them internet). Or more commonly nowadays, "my phone is my internet connection" -- and the only thing they think they have the power to do is to wave the phone in the air to find 'more bars'. I suppose it makes sense from Verizon's (or any ISPs) perspective, and honesty, if you understand how all this works, then you understand how to trivially eliminate the issue, and then of course, you know when and when not to call Verizon with problems. (Of course, it'd be awful nice if they offered 'Shibboleet' [1] service for folks who do undertsand when the problem is between the site and the router.) HOWEVER, it'd be nice if they were more upfront with the disclosure of this password sharing ... 1: https://xkcd.com/806/ https://xkcd.com/806/
mikestew 2y ago
Sure, it’s what I do as a Verizon->Frontier->Ziply FiOS user. But most users are not going to go out and procur a bunch of Ubiquiti equipment or whatever, they’re going to take the defaults.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Also, with services like Xfinity, the monthly cost is substantially lower if you are using their router. This is because they scan the traffic for ad targeting, but most people don't care and don't want to buy their own router and then have to pay more per month to use it.
  - rietta 2y ago
    Really? How much lower? I have had my own modem so long I never knew this. Not that I would switch to theirs.
    - zdragnar 2y ago
      This must be new. It's been about 8 years since I've had Xfinity but I always had my own modem and router and got a discount (i.e. didn't have to "rent" the modem). Iirc it was something small like $5 or $15 a month... I really only did it for the better hardware and software.
    - SoftTalker 2y ago
      This was earlier in the year, we had started hitting the monthly data caps on our plan and getting penalized. I went in and the unlimited plan was about $15 less per month using their modem/router than my own (which I already had), plus the router was free (I'm not paying a monthly equipment "rental" fee). One annoyance was that their router didn't allow spaces in the WiFi password, so I had to reconfigure all my devices. I could set up the router in bridge mode where it acts like a dumb modem and continue to use my own router, but I have not bothered with that.
  - jasonjayr 2y ago
    Most of the CPE from various ISPs I've seen are barely powered enough to keep track of enough NAT connections. They're handing out devices capable of DPI on 100mb/s+ connections now?

Couldn't a security conscious user just use their own APs/Router?

by cheeze 2y ago

Couldn't a security conscious user just use their own APs/Router?

nehal3m 2y ago

Sure, but then a forgotten password is your problem.

jjk166 2y ago
Honestly it would never even occur to me to call my ISP to help if I'd forgotten my wifi password. Also I feel like if you are concerned about forgetting your wifi password you'd probably just keep the one that's written on the device (and which is probably quite a bit more secure than the password you'd come up with yourself).
- renewiltord 2y ago
  Xfinity these days will have the tech set up your WiFi with your password. It's an integrated device so he'll set up the cable internet and then your WiFi. Monkeybrains is all "you're set up!" and then you add your own WiFi router. Sonic has you set up your own WiFi. AT&T has the WiFi password printed on the device along with the admin password. That's my experience with ISPs in SF. It's clear that many people don't buy Internet access. They buy "WiFi" which is that Xfinity integrated service. The components don't matter.
- jasonjayr 2y ago
  I'm certain that nearly most, if not all users on hacker news have a pretty solid mental model of the basics of how internet connection works, and the responsibilities between the computer or device, wifi, home router, ISP, and internet web sites or other services. But I've assisted people who's mental model is simply "Verizon put this box in my home and now I have internet". Who panic when a site doesn't load, and will call the first person they think is responsible for the problem. (typically, the company that gave them internet). Or more commonly nowadays, "my phone is my internet connection" -- and the only thing they think they have the power to do is to wave the phone in the air to find 'more bars'. I suppose it makes sense from Verizon's (or any ISPs) perspective, and honesty, if you understand how all this works, then you understand how to trivially eliminate the issue, and then of course, you know when and when not to call Verizon with problems. (Of course, it'd be awful nice if they offered 'Shibboleet' [1] service for folks who do undertsand when the problem is between the site and the router.) HOWEVER, it'd be nice if they were more upfront with the disclosure of this password sharing ... 1: https://xkcd.com/806/ https://xkcd.com/806/

mikestew 2y ago

Sure, it’s what I do as a Verizon->Frontier->Ziply FiOS user. But most users are not going to go out and procur a bunch of Ubiquiti equipment or whatever, they’re going to take the defaults.

SoftTalker 2y ago
Also, with services like Xfinity, the monthly cost is substantially lower if you are using their router. This is because they scan the traffic for ad targeting, but most people don't care and don't want to buy their own router and then have to pay more per month to use it.
- rietta 2y ago
  Really? How much lower? I have had my own modem so long I never knew this. Not that I would switch to theirs.
  - zdragnar 2y ago
    This must be new. It's been about 8 years since I've had Xfinity but I always had my own modem and router and got a discount (i.e. didn't have to "rent" the modem). Iirc it was something small like $5 or $15 a month... I really only did it for the better hardware and software.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    This was earlier in the year, we had started hitting the monthly data caps on our plan and getting penalized. I went in and the unlimited plan was about $15 less per month using their modem/router than my own (which I already had), plus the router was free (I'm not paying a monthly equipment "rental" fee). One annoyance was that their router didn't allow spaces in the WiFi password, so I had to reconfigure all my devices. I could set up the router in bridge mode where it acts like a dumb modem and continue to use my own router, but I have not bothered with that.
- jasonjayr 2y ago
  Most of the CPE from various ISPs I've seen are barely powered enough to keep track of enough NAT connections. They're handing out devices capable of DPI on 100mb/s+ connections now?