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The article is correct, however most people would rather CSAM filters with errors than just throwing up our hands and saying no CSAM detection is possible. The

The article is correct, however most people would rather CSAM filters with errors than just throwing up our hands and saying no CSAM detection is possible. The solution to have human-in-the-loop appeals processes. And because companies don't want to pay for this, it should be enforced as regulation.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
No? My toddler did not want to wear clothes at home for essentially 1 year (2 to 3). We took photo of him playing during the year to preserve memories of his 2 years old, but of course he is naked in all the photos. My wife joked the other day "wow 2023 photos are full of his butt!" Is it csam? I doubt it, those photos are for me and my wife who had to put up with it. He finally wears underwear now.
kelseyfrog 2y ago
That's because opposition to CSAM filtering is expressed as a defense mechanism, in this case splitting[1] also known as black or white thinking. Either the filter is 100% accurate or we can't have it at all. Splitting ranks low(level 2)[2] on the hierarchy of defense mechanisms. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology) 2. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8555762/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8555762/
- snapcaster 2y ago
  That's not the opposition to it though? I think you're attacking a strawman (also just pointing to some fields classification of something isn't actually an argument) It's the invasion of privacy not accuracy rates of the model
  - kelseyfrog 2y ago
    To be sure there are different ways people argue against CSAM filtering. One is that it has false positive and negatives, others, like you mentioned involve privacy. Some people even feel like it's an invasion of privacy and then justify their argument by saying that it has false positives and negatives.
dmitrygr 2y ago
> most people would rather Citation please. Once it is explained to them how it could work, what the failure cases are, what false positives cause (with real life examples, since it has already happened), etc, I doubt this would be even remotely true.
chatmasta 2y ago
Presumably that depends on what actions are taken based on the filter. If it’s a filter of “which images to not sync to cloud,” that’s a different discussion than “which images to trigger an alert to FBI for investigation and prosecution.”
kwere 2y ago
the only way to catch pedos, if anybody really cared, would be with honeypots and "trojanlike" content, which could infect csam collectors devices and transmit data to police. It also work as a scaring tactic, so to limit diffusion of such material

Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago

No? My toddler did not want to wear clothes at home for essentially 1 year (2 to 3). We took photo of him playing during the year to preserve memories of his 2 years old, but of course he is naked in all the photos. My wife joked the other day "wow 2023 photos are full of his butt!" Is it csam? I doubt it, those photos are for me and my wife who had to put up with it. He finally wears underwear now.

kelseyfrog 2y ago

That's because opposition to CSAM filtering is expressed as a defense mechanism, in this case splitting[1] also known as black or white thinking. Either the filter is 100% accurate or we can't have it at all. Splitting ranks low(level 2)[2] on the hierarchy of defense mechanisms. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology) 2. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8555762/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8555762/

snapcaster 2y ago
That's not the opposition to it though? I think you're attacking a strawman (also just pointing to some fields classification of something isn't actually an argument) It's the invasion of privacy not accuracy rates of the model
- kelseyfrog 2y ago
  To be sure there are different ways people argue against CSAM filtering. One is that it has false positive and negatives, others, like you mentioned involve privacy. Some people even feel like it's an invasion of privacy and then justify their argument by saying that it has false positives and negatives.

dmitrygr 2y ago

> most people would rather Citation please. Once it is explained to them how it could work, what the failure cases are, what false positives cause (with real life examples, since it has already happened), etc, I doubt this would be even remotely true.

chatmasta 2y ago

Presumably that depends on what actions are taken based on the filter. If it’s a filter of “which images to not sync to cloud,” that’s a different discussion than “which images to trigger an alert to FBI for investigation and prosecution.”

kwere 2y ago

the only way to catch pedos, if anybody really cared, would be with honeypots and "trojanlike" content, which could infect csam collectors devices and transmit data to police. It also work as a scaring tactic, so to limit diffusion of such material