4 ms·

So those stats (from a biased source!) are from 2008. I guess that means you're happy with going back to the early days of Bratton's policing, then? By 2008 th

So those stats (from a biased source!) are from 2008. I guess that means you're happy with going back to the early days of Bratton's policing, then? By 2008 the battle was mostly won. Assuming I believe your numbers (a stretch, but stay with me): do you have some other way of catching those 82,287 convictions? Or you just don't care? The reason they were in minority neighborhoods is that that's where the crime is. And also where the crime victims are.

SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
I care about catching guilty people, but I think we must protect the innocent from harassment as much as possible. I value liberty more than punishment. Would you support this countrywide? Would you also support something like increased internet surveillance? A digital stop and frisk of every person, so we can catch all the digital bad guys? If so, why not? Because you might get caught up in it? I'm wondering where your line for these sorts of impositions is. It's easy to be for something if you don't expect to get caught in it. I know that if I was mugged I might be more prone to accepting this sort of liberty loss, but that wouldn't be because I changed my ethical stance, it'd be because I was hurt and scared.
- Cupertino95014 2y ago
  So you have to resort to hypotheticals to make your point. That sorta proves you've lost. > I value liberty more than punishment Putting your thumb on the scales and misstating the question. It's not about "punishment" -- it's safety. Yes, fear of punishment does dissuade some criminals from preying on victims. And you've just admitted why NYC'ers broadly support stop-and-frisk: because they're "scared", too. As if that's something to be ashamed of. As for "if you don't expect to get caught in it" -- you're right, I don't look like a mugger. You probably don't, either.

4 ms·

So those stats (from a biased source!) are from 2008. I guess that means you're happy with going back to the early days of Bratton's policing, then? By 2008 th

by Cupertino95014 2y ago

SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
I care about catching guilty people, but I think we must protect the innocent from harassment as much as possible. I value liberty more than punishment. Would you support this countrywide? Would you also support something like increased internet surveillance? A digital stop and frisk of every person, so we can catch all the digital bad guys? If so, why not? Because you might get caught up in it? I'm wondering where your line for these sorts of impositions is. It's easy to be for something if you don't expect to get caught in it. I know that if I was mugged I might be more prone to accepting this sort of liberty loss, but that wouldn't be because I changed my ethical stance, it'd be because I was hurt and scared.
- Cupertino95014 2y ago
  So you have to resort to hypotheticals to make your point. That sorta proves you've lost. > I value liberty more than punishment Putting your thumb on the scales and misstating the question. It's not about "punishment" -- it's safety. Yes, fear of punishment does dissuade some criminals from preying on victims. And you've just admitted why NYC'ers broadly support stop-and-frisk: because they're "scared", too. As if that's something to be ashamed of. As for "if you don't expect to get caught in it" -- you're right, I don't look like a mugger. You probably don't, either.