3 ms·

The coming eBPF revolution and why Kubernetes monitoring will never be the same

17 points by nickwritesit 2y ago

politelemon 2y ago
> You need Kubernetes, and you need to be able to monitor your environment, but you don’t have the resources to staff up. Then you don't necessarily need it. You can also use cloud native solutions which is meant to address many scenarios (of course not every) like this one where there's lots to do and not enough people, offload the thinking to a provider. If you're running thin, then you should not be subjecting yourself to a system like k8s, it requires going in with eyes wide open and a lot of awareness.
- skiexperte 2y ago
  Agree and disagree. K8s is the only opensource infrastructure layer there is, which has value. But if you already have a small infra/cloud team, you do have potentially enough dev teams / product size to go with k8s if you want to.
  - ghthor 2y ago
    There hashicorp nomad which dead simple to run and maintain.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
      It's also not open source.
      - zuntaruk 2y ago
        Just wanting to understand the definition of Open Source you are using here, considering that you can see and download the source here: https://github.com/hashicorp/nomad https://github.com/hashicorp/nomad Are you maybe referring to their Enterprise offering?
        gnabgib 2y ago
        "Going forward, we will refer to the open, freely available versions as “community”. The BSL license is open, free, and source-available. However, it does not meet the definition of open source as defined by OSI" https://www.hashicorp.com/license-faq https://www.hashicorp.com/license-faq From Open Source to Source Available https://news.itsfoss.com/open-source-source-available/ https://news.itsfoss.com/open-source-source-available/ "The BSL (also sometimes abbreviated as BUSL) is considered a source-available license (..) Unlike open source licenses, the BSL prohibits the licensed code from being used in production — without explicit approval from the licensor." https://fossa.com/blog/business-source-license-requirements-provisions-history/ https://fossa.com/blog/business-source-license-requirements-...
        zuntaruk 2y ago
        Really appreciate the references here. I usually forgot some of the diner details on stuff like this
        yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
        Publishing the source code makes it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source-available_software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source-available_software but that code is under the Business Source License, which is not an open source license. (By way of example: The source code for Windows has been leaked several times, including on github, and MS made it available to various parties over the years, but I think we can agree that it is not open source.)
        zuntaruk 2y ago
        Thanks for the clarification!
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    > K8s is the only opensource infrastructure layer there is, which has value. Depending on your definition, I think both docker swarm and incus (nee LXD) count. Maybe even proxmox.
mgarfias 2y ago
> You need Kubernetes No, you THINK you need k8s.
skiexperte 2y ago
Cilium wasn't mentioned and i think thats wrong. It should be part of the history of eBPF with Kubernetes as a fundamental CNI (now also with a service mesh) build with eBPF. Its also part of the micro docume regarding eBPF and Brendan Greggs usage of eBPF for performance insights etc.
zuntaruk 2y ago
With the marketshare that Kubernetes has, I can definitely see why so many eBPF projects focus on supporting it. Still makes me wish more of them had support for things like HashiCop Nomad, standalone Docker/Podman, or standalone hosts. Maybe one day! Could be really interesting to see this kind of stuff used inthe likes of homelabs or just smaller environments, or even just environments where kubernetes isn't in.

17 points by nickwritesit 2y ago

> You need Kubernetes, and you need to be able to monitor your environment, but you don’t have the resources to staff up. Then you don't necessarily need it. You can also use cloud native solutions which is meant to address many scenarios (of course not every) like this one where there's lots to do and not enough people, offload the thinking to a provider. If you're running thin, then you should not be subjecting yourself to a system like k8s, it requires going in with eyes wide open and a lot of awareness.

skiexperte 2y ago
Agree and disagree. K8s is the only opensource infrastructure layer there is, which has value. But if you already have a small infra/cloud team, you do have potentially enough dev teams / product size to go with k8s if you want to.
- ghthor 2y ago
  There hashicorp nomad which dead simple to run and maintain.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    It's also not open source.
    - zuntaruk 2y ago
      Just wanting to understand the definition of Open Source you are using here, considering that you can see and download the source here: https://github.com/hashicorp/nomad https://github.com/hashicorp/nomad Are you maybe referring to their Enterprise offering?
      - gnabgib 2y ago
        "Going forward, we will refer to the open, freely available versions as “community”. The BSL license is open, free, and source-available. However, it does not meet the definition of open source as defined by OSI" https://www.hashicorp.com/license-faq https://www.hashicorp.com/license-faq From Open Source to Source Available https://news.itsfoss.com/open-source-source-available/ https://news.itsfoss.com/open-source-source-available/ "The BSL (also sometimes abbreviated as BUSL) is considered a source-available license (..) Unlike open source licenses, the BSL prohibits the licensed code from being used in production — without explicit approval from the licensor." https://fossa.com/blog/business-source-license-requirements-provisions-history/ https://fossa.com/blog/business-source-license-requirements-...
        zuntaruk 2y ago
        Really appreciate the references here. I usually forgot some of the diner details on stuff like this
      - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
        Publishing the source code makes it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source-available_software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source-available_software but that code is under the Business Source License, which is not an open source license. (By way of example: The source code for Windows has been leaked several times, including on github, and MS made it available to various parties over the years, but I think we can agree that it is not open source.)
        zuntaruk 2y ago
        Thanks for the clarification!
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  > K8s is the only opensource infrastructure layer there is, which has value. Depending on your definition, I think both docker swarm and incus (nee LXD) count. Maybe even proxmox.

mgarfias 2y ago

> You need Kubernetes No, you THINK you need k8s.

skiexperte 2y ago

Cilium wasn't mentioned and i think thats wrong. It should be part of the history of eBPF with Kubernetes as a fundamental CNI (now also with a service mesh) build with eBPF. Its also part of the micro docume regarding eBPF and Brendan Greggs usage of eBPF for performance insights etc.

zuntaruk 2y ago

With the marketshare that Kubernetes has, I can definitely see why so many eBPF projects focus on supporting it. Still makes me wish more of them had support for things like HashiCop Nomad, standalone Docker/Podman, or standalone hosts. Maybe one day! Could be really interesting to see this kind of stuff used inthe likes of homelabs or just smaller environments, or even just environments where kubernetes isn't in.