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Yes, you can scuttle and quash whatever. Almost every massively successful tech product can be given the same treatment from the IBM PC to Microsoft Windows to

Yes, you can scuttle and quash whatever. Almost every massively successful tech product can be given the same treatment from the IBM PC to Microsoft Windows to the iPhone. And there were plenty of people who clicked their heels saying "there's nothing new here!" when the iPod, YouTube or Instagram came out. I used to be among them. You can also "but wait, there's more" those products and go back and forth and say how different and unique they are. Nest, Ring, Roku, Kindle, Uber, Airbnb... It's a game. You either take a risk and make a splash with a consumer-friendly, consumer-form factor, consumer-priced version of something or you don't. There's no modern printer people love and nothing in one they can get at say, Best Buy, they couldn't get 20 years ago. They're all frustrating plastic things sitting in the corner. Making innovative, actually great printers people are excited about is a product opportunity. Brother is close, but they're the Zune. Nobody's iPhoned it.

vel0city 2y ago
Are you arguing that if Brother would just add MQTT support (whatever that would look like) or IR scanning (once again, what's the consumer use for this?) they'd have the next iPhone on their hands? HP has had the "print to email" function you ask for since at least the late 00's (that's when I first saw it). They discontinued it on their newer models because nobody cared. Brother and Epson have this functionality as well. I imagine most consumer printer platforms support such a feature. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_ePrint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_ePrint https://help.brother-usa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/158082/~/attach%2C-email%2C-and-print---brother-apps https://help.brother-usa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/158082/... https://www.epsonconnect.com/guide/en/html/uses_1.htm https://www.epsonconnect.com/guide/en/html/uses_1.htm And you can add binding support to your printer if you want to. Here's a link to a binder add-on. Think its this big because they just felt like making it big, or because its mechanically a somewhat complex process to fold and bind stacks of paper? https://www.xerox.com/en-us/digital-printing/feeders-print-finishing/xerox-tape-binder https://www.xerox.com/en-us/digital-printing/feeders-print-f... If you do reply to this comment, I'd genuinely like to know what you'd do with a flatbed or ADF scanner that can scan IR and UV. About the only feature I'd imagine a decent chunk of consumers would like that doesn't already exist would be for it to also automatically trim/cut things for you, à la Cricut. But while a Cricut looks a lot like a printer, it functions radically differently. It is made to move the cutting board back and forth and requires the material to be cut to be affixed to the board. There's a lot more setup involved than just pulling a page from the tray and pushing it through with rollers. Adding a cutting edge to a normal printer path would probably end up with lots of paper jams and debris stuck in the printer. A Cricut is way more like a 3D printer than a laser/inkjet printer.
- kristopolous 2y ago
  I'm arguing it's a game and one I don't play anymore. Consumers aren't infinitely rational homo-economicus logicians and discussing products as if they are is irrelevant. People might buy into the UV and IR just because they could. It doesn't have to be practical and they don't have to ever use it. The modern iPhone: No removable battery, too big for pockets, cash cow of a multi trillion dollar company, lacks a headphone port, needs a proprietary charger... Doesn't matter. Products have features. Features aren't a product. Successful products feel like their own thing that also services the need they're intended for. Xerox used to occupy that space for printing. It's mostly vacant now.
  - vel0city 2y ago
    > They're all frustrating plastic things sitting in the corner. > There's plenty of innovation left. > Lists a bunch of features that either already exist or have no practical application You're telling me there's lots of meat on the bone for innovation but then I'm not actually seeing anything that hasn't already existed that would make them not the same frustrating plastic things in the corner they are today. Maybe it's just a marketing thing? I imagine most people wouldn't know a lot of the printers at Best Buy support print by email, clearly you didn't already know that was a thing. Stuff like IPP and AirPrint makes printing to a random network printer stupid simple without needing additional apps or whatever, but it seems every time I print from my phone it blows peoples' minds that I didn't have to plug in a cable. Other than HP consumer printers, generally printers I've used in at least Windows and Linux just work. Plug them into the network or add them to the WiFi, and then every computer in the home can see it and it works without needing to install 500MB of drivers and additional software. Maybe not every product market has obvious innovations that are useful to consumers. Maybe sometimes things get mature. I'm not seeing a lot of innovation in forks or whatever. Generally, printers these days are pretty reliable. You can get them pretty dang tiny if you want. They can have pretty insane resolution for most consumer needs. They can talk wirelessly with highly standardized APIs that pretty much any computer or phone or tablet can talk.
    - kristopolous 2y ago

vel0city 2y ago

Are you arguing that if Brother would just add MQTT support (whatever that would look like) or IR scanning (once again, what's the consumer use for this?) they'd have the next iPhone on their hands? HP has had the "print to email" function you ask for since at least the late 00's (that's when I first saw it). They discontinued it on their newer models because nobody cared. Brother and Epson have this functionality as well. I imagine most consumer printer platforms support such a feature. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_ePrint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_ePrint https://help.brother-usa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/158082/~/attach%2C-email%2C-and-print---brother-apps https://help.brother-usa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/158082/... https://www.epsonconnect.com/guide/en/html/uses_1.htm https://www.epsonconnect.com/guide/en/html/uses_1.htm And you can add binding support to your printer if you want to. Here's a link to a binder add-on. Think its this big because they just felt like making it big, or because its mechanically a somewhat complex process to fold and bind stacks of paper? https://www.xerox.com/en-us/digital-printing/feeders-print-finishing/xerox-tape-binder https://www.xerox.com/en-us/digital-printing/feeders-print-f... If you do reply to this comment, I'd genuinely like to know what you'd do with a flatbed or ADF scanner that can scan IR and UV. About the only feature I'd imagine a decent chunk of consumers would like that doesn't already exist would be for it to also automatically trim/cut things for you, à la Cricut. But while a Cricut looks a lot like a printer, it functions radically differently. It is made to move the cutting board back and forth and requires the material to be cut to be affixed to the board. There's a lot more setup involved than just pulling a page from the tray and pushing it through with rollers. Adding a cutting edge to a normal printer path would probably end up with lots of paper jams and debris stuck in the printer. A Cricut is way more like a 3D printer than a laser/inkjet printer.

kristopolous 2y ago
I'm arguing it's a game and one I don't play anymore. Consumers aren't infinitely rational homo-economicus logicians and discussing products as if they are is irrelevant. People might buy into the UV and IR just because they could. It doesn't have to be practical and they don't have to ever use it. The modern iPhone: No removable battery, too big for pockets, cash cow of a multi trillion dollar company, lacks a headphone port, needs a proprietary charger... Doesn't matter. Products have features. Features aren't a product. Successful products feel like their own thing that also services the need they're intended for. Xerox used to occupy that space for printing. It's mostly vacant now.
- vel0city 2y ago
  > They're all frustrating plastic things sitting in the corner. > There's plenty of innovation left. > Lists a bunch of features that either already exist or have no practical application You're telling me there's lots of meat on the bone for innovation but then I'm not actually seeing anything that hasn't already existed that would make them not the same frustrating plastic things in the corner they are today. Maybe it's just a marketing thing? I imagine most people wouldn't know a lot of the printers at Best Buy support print by email, clearly you didn't already know that was a thing. Stuff like IPP and AirPrint makes printing to a random network printer stupid simple without needing additional apps or whatever, but it seems every time I print from my phone it blows peoples' minds that I didn't have to plug in a cable. Other than HP consumer printers, generally printers I've used in at least Windows and Linux just work. Plug them into the network or add them to the WiFi, and then every computer in the home can see it and it works without needing to install 500MB of drivers and additional software. Maybe not every product market has obvious innovations that are useful to consumers. Maybe sometimes things get mature. I'm not seeing a lot of innovation in forks or whatever. Generally, printers these days are pretty reliable. You can get them pretty dang tiny if you want. They can have pretty insane resolution for most consumer needs. They can talk wirelessly with highly standardized APIs that pretty much any computer or phone or tablet can talk.
  - kristopolous 2y ago