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> “Everyone is talking about trying to recover vehicles, and a lot of my focus has been on why we are not making the vehicles tougher to steal in the first plac

> “Everyone is talking about trying to recover vehicles, and a lot of my focus has been on why we are not making the vehicles tougher to steal in the first place,” he said. This is a surprising statement. My recollection is that car manufacturers have made cars far, far harder to steal than they used to be. Possibly it's just an insecure whataboutism, but I don't think car recovery is first on the list for most people in terms of car crime.

fxtentacle 2y ago
Oddly enough, a lot of the anti-theft features that we take for granted in Europe - like ignition breakers - aren't built into US cars by default. I guess sometimes laws really help to nudge companies to do the right thing. Especially if doing the right thing costs a few additional $$$s.
goalieca 2y ago
Flipper zero is able to record and replay rolling codes. It turns out many car manufacturers handled the error condition of a key press being out of range so it will roll back the counter after a certain number of failures. The solution is to move to a signed challenge model.
iamtheworstdev 2y ago
Some companies have had a major relapse. See Kia/Hyundai.
- tjoff 2y ago
  Only in the US, due to lax regulations. (and greed on behalf of the manufacturer)
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  Yeah, I've heard of that. It still sounds like a local minimum, though.
michael_vo 2y ago
"Show me the incentive, and I'll show you the outcome" - Charlie Munger. Car companies don't need to care, if your car gets stolen the insurance company buys you a new one. You do lose some customers who won't buy your car if it's in the top ten most stolen list. We could implement a law that fines car companies who are in the top ten list, and pays out to the car companies who are at the bottom.
- dinkumthinkum 2y ago
  Fine car companies? Isn’t that just madness? Do we really need to think there criminals have superior rights over law-abiding citizens? What do we get at the end of leftist madness? I don’t know if it’s something those that are espousing such positions will actually want.
  - michael_vo 2y ago
    You're missing the point. This has nothing to do with politics. I'm demonstrating how economic incentives could be used to change the outcome. And car companies DO get fined. Kia was fined (lawsuit) $200MM in USA for not using modern standard anti-theft tech in order to save money. Insurance companies DO give you a discount if you use the chubb or install other anti theft devices. Economic incentives work!
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  There is no requirement for insurance companies to write policies or to sell them at reasonable rates. Try selling an uninsurable car, it’s really hard. Or you require dealers to make a disclosure at the time of sale to the effect that the car does not meet modern security standards. Incentives work both ways. Most new cars have the computer hardware to solve this problem with a firmware update.
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    Uninsurable cars sell pretty well from what I heard from UK... Where they had large number of issues with Land Rovers. People only notice they can't insure something after they buy it...
betaby 2y ago
Airtag shows car in transit. Police: 'sorry we can't locate it' or 'we can't enter the port of Montreal'
yardie 2y ago
> car manufacturers have made cars far, far harder to steal than they used to be. Literally, just watched a video of a bunch of kids breaking into a Kia and driving off with it with nothing more than a screwdriver and USB key. And the USB key wasn't being used how you think. It could have been a chunk of wood. But in this day and age a USB key is easier to find.
- betaby 2y ago
  I mean, a bunch of kids can break into my home 'with nothing more than a screwdriver' not even USB needed. That doesn't mean it should be tolerated - they must go to jail.
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    Step ladder and rock or three get you in very many places. Does not mean we shouldn't punish anyone who did it extremely harshly.
- Workaccount2 2y ago
  The kias are a unique case to be fair. Back in the day pretty much all cars were like them.

fxtentacle 2y ago

Oddly enough, a lot of the anti-theft features that we take for granted in Europe - like ignition breakers - aren't built into US cars by default. I guess sometimes laws really help to nudge companies to do the right thing. Especially if doing the right thing costs a few additional $$$s.

goalieca 2y ago

Flipper zero is able to record and replay rolling codes. It turns out many car manufacturers handled the error condition of a key press being out of range so it will roll back the counter after a certain number of failures. The solution is to move to a signed challenge model.

iamtheworstdev 2y ago

Some companies have had a major relapse. See Kia/Hyundai.

tjoff 2y ago
Only in the US, due to lax regulations. (and greed on behalf of the manufacturer)
robertlagrant 2y ago
Yeah, I've heard of that. It still sounds like a local minimum, though.

michael_vo 2y ago

"Show me the incentive, and I'll show you the outcome" - Charlie Munger. Car companies don't need to care, if your car gets stolen the insurance company buys you a new one. You do lose some customers who won't buy your car if it's in the top ten most stolen list. We could implement a law that fines car companies who are in the top ten list, and pays out to the car companies who are at the bottom.

dinkumthinkum 2y ago
Fine car companies? Isn’t that just madness? Do we really need to think there criminals have superior rights over law-abiding citizens? What do we get at the end of leftist madness? I don’t know if it’s something those that are espousing such positions will actually want.
- michael_vo 2y ago
  You're missing the point. This has nothing to do with politics. I'm demonstrating how economic incentives could be used to change the outcome. And car companies DO get fined. Kia was fined (lawsuit) $200MM in USA for not using modern standard anti-theft tech in order to save money. Insurance companies DO give you a discount if you use the chubb or install other anti theft devices. Economic incentives work!
dghlsakjg 2y ago
There is no requirement for insurance companies to write policies or to sell them at reasonable rates. Try selling an uninsurable car, it’s really hard. Or you require dealers to make a disclosure at the time of sale to the effect that the car does not meet modern security standards. Incentives work both ways. Most new cars have the computer hardware to solve this problem with a firmware update.
- Ekaros 2y ago
  Uninsurable cars sell pretty well from what I heard from UK... Where they had large number of issues with Land Rovers. People only notice they can't insure something after they buy it...

betaby 2y ago

Airtag shows car in transit. Police: 'sorry we can't locate it' or 'we can't enter the port of Montreal'

yardie 2y ago

> car manufacturers have made cars far, far harder to steal than they used to be. Literally, just watched a video of a bunch of kids breaking into a Kia and driving off with it with nothing more than a screwdriver and USB key. And the USB key wasn't being used how you think. It could have been a chunk of wood. But in this day and age a USB key is easier to find.

betaby 2y ago
I mean, a bunch of kids can break into my home 'with nothing more than a screwdriver' not even USB needed. That doesn't mean it should be tolerated - they must go to jail.
- Ekaros 2y ago
  Step ladder and rock or three get you in very many places. Does not mean we shouldn't punish anyone who did it extremely harshly.
Workaccount2 2y ago
The kias are a unique case to be fair. Back in the day pretty much all cars were like them.