5 ms·

Mesopotamians were at least a millennium ahead of Greeks though..

constantcrying 2y ago
No. They weren't even in the same category, even the comparison doesn't make sense. In Mesopotamia mathematics seems to have been a tool, a method for business and construction planers to drive certain quantities. Mathematics to the Greeks was "mathematics" in the sense we understand it today. From a system of axioms they derived a complex system of theorems, which allowed for an abstract description of reality. It was mathematics as a system of truth, which then could be used for other purposes. E.g. with Archimedes who discovered integration, but also was a prolific engineer. The Greeks were so far ahead of anything the Mesopotamians did, that even the comparison is unfair.
- derstander 2y ago
  > No. They weren't even in the same category, even the comparison doesn't make sense. The comparison does make sense if you interpret the parent’s post simply to state that Babylonian mathematics (in Mesopotamia) were developed (and seemingly stagnated) before Greek mathematics began in earnest. Which seems to be pretty uncontroversial. There are extant clay tablets from 1800 to 1600 BC that would indeed predate the Greek Geometers by a millennia — and that’s if you’re counting Thales as the beginning. Ie. your parent post is using “ahead of” == “temporally before” not as in “more advanced”.
  - rusticpenn 2y ago
    Thank you.
    - constantcrying 2y ago
      [flagged]
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - rusticpenn 2y ago
      I am of the opinion that there is something to learn from everyone. However I come to HN for civil discussion. That was not a gotcha or are we trying to win something. Mesopotamians needed complex mathematics for taxes long before even Mycenian Greeks came into picture. You are talking about classical Greeks. Naturally there were advancements in mathematics during the Greek period, but that does not undermine the achievements of Mesopotamians.
      - constantcrying 2y ago
        Your response was a single sentence, pointing out something which I obviously knew. That information was totally irrelevant to what I said, but you thought you had discovered something which I didn't know about. You also obviously didn't understand what I said, else you wouldn't have posted a single statement with no new information. Obviously this was a gotcha. You made no attempt to even try to understand me or post anything interesting or relevant, instead you took a cheap shot at a misreading of my post. If this is what "high quality discussion" is to you, what does mid level discussion look to you? Just a slur as a response? >Mesopotamians needed complex mathematics for taxes long before even Mycenian Greeks came into picture. You are talking about classical Greeks. Naturally there were advancements in mathematics during the Greek period, but that does not undermine the achievements of Mesopotamians. I am stunned by your knowledge. You really know that? That is breathtaking information. Genuinely thank you for posting this novel information that I was totally unaware of. Bringing that to my attention was extremely relevant and has radically changed my position. Seriously fuck off, you still haven't even bothered to read my OP.
        rusticpenn 2y ago
        I am sorry anonymous person on the internet. I have no idea what you know or do not know. I am perplexed by the notion that time does not play a role for you when talking about the "history" of something. Just like the fact the Phoenecian alphabet was modified by the Greeks, there would have definitely been transfer of knowledge.
- kouru225 2y ago
  This is the difference between philosophy and number systems. The Babylonian number system was, by far, the superior system to the Greek number system (which they inherited from the Egyptians.) This is something even the Greeks acknowledged because they would use the Babylonian system to do their own calculations, and then convert it back into the Greek numbers (similar to how the USA scientists use the metric system and then convert back to the imperial system today).

No. They weren't even in the same category, even the comparison doesn't make sense. In Mesopotamia mathematics seems to have been a tool, a method for business and construction planers to drive certain quantities. Mathematics to the Greeks was "mathematics" in the sense we understand it today. From a system of axioms they derived a complex system of theorems, which allowed for an abstract description of reality. It was mathematics as a system of truth, which then could be used for other purposes. E.g. with Archimedes who discovered integration, but also was a prolific engineer. The Greeks were so far ahead of anything the Mesopotamians did, that even the comparison is unfair.

derstander 2y ago
> No. They weren't even in the same category, even the comparison doesn't make sense. The comparison does make sense if you interpret the parent’s post simply to state that Babylonian mathematics (in Mesopotamia) were developed (and seemingly stagnated) before Greek mathematics began in earnest. Which seems to be pretty uncontroversial. There are extant clay tablets from 1800 to 1600 BC that would indeed predate the Greek Geometers by a millennia — and that’s if you’re counting Thales as the beginning. Ie. your parent post is using “ahead of” == “temporally before” not as in “more advanced”.
- rusticpenn 2y ago
  Thank you.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    [flagged]
- constantcrying 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - rusticpenn 2y ago
    I am of the opinion that there is something to learn from everyone. However I come to HN for civil discussion. That was not a gotcha or are we trying to win something. Mesopotamians needed complex mathematics for taxes long before even Mycenian Greeks came into picture. You are talking about classical Greeks. Naturally there were advancements in mathematics during the Greek period, but that does not undermine the achievements of Mesopotamians.
    - constantcrying 2y ago
      Your response was a single sentence, pointing out something which I obviously knew. That information was totally irrelevant to what I said, but you thought you had discovered something which I didn't know about. You also obviously didn't understand what I said, else you wouldn't have posted a single statement with no new information. Obviously this was a gotcha. You made no attempt to even try to understand me or post anything interesting or relevant, instead you took a cheap shot at a misreading of my post. If this is what "high quality discussion" is to you, what does mid level discussion look to you? Just a slur as a response? >Mesopotamians needed complex mathematics for taxes long before even Mycenian Greeks came into picture. You are talking about classical Greeks. Naturally there were advancements in mathematics during the Greek period, but that does not undermine the achievements of Mesopotamians. I am stunned by your knowledge. You really know that? That is breathtaking information. Genuinely thank you for posting this novel information that I was totally unaware of. Bringing that to my attention was extremely relevant and has radically changed my position. Seriously fuck off, you still haven't even bothered to read my OP.
      - rusticpenn 2y ago
        I am sorry anonymous person on the internet. I have no idea what you know or do not know. I am perplexed by the notion that time does not play a role for you when talking about the "history" of something. Just like the fact the Phoenecian alphabet was modified by the Greeks, there would have definitely been transfer of knowledge.
kouru225 2y ago
This is the difference between philosophy and number systems. The Babylonian number system was, by far, the superior system to the Greek number system (which they inherited from the Egyptians.) This is something even the Greeks acknowledged because they would use the Babylonian system to do their own calculations, and then convert it back into the Greek numbers (similar to how the USA scientists use the metric system and then convert back to the imperial system today).