4 ms·

It’s not a cultural thing, some people just like the taste of meat. Those people tend to eat their steaks rare and soybeans will never be a substitute for that.

It’s not a cultural thing, some people just like the taste of meat. Those people tend to eat their steaks rare and soybeans will never be a substitute for that. I like some vegetarian and vegan dishes but they have to be meals where meat isn’t the “hero” of that dish. For example a good curry is about the flavour of the source rather than the flavour of the protein. This is why I think lab grown meat is the way forward.

TaylorAlexander 2y ago
> It’s not a cultural thing, some people just like the taste of meat. Can you explain why 20-39% of Indians, or 276 million Indians, are vegetarian while in China, Chile, Colombia, and France (to pick a few) it is 5%? [1] Because it is either cultural, or it is genetic. And I doubt Indians have a genetic mutation that makes them vegetarian, I think it is cultural. If a good curry is what makes more people vegetarian, then we can cook good curries anywhere. In a meat-heavy culture, a lot of people might not realize how much they would like vegetarian meals! > I like some vegetarian and vegan dishes but they have to be meals where meat isn’t the “hero” of that dish. Not to be snarky, but that is the definition of a vegetarian dish. But I know what you mean, and you are right, meat substitutes do not make for very good vegan meals. A good vegan meal is one where it's not just trying to emulate meat based foods, but building a flavor profile that celebrates the actual vegetables and other ingredients in harmony. Go to any of these Michelin rated vegan restaurants [2] for example, and you will find absolutely incredible tasting vegan meals. It takes culture to spread this kind of thing to chefs and patrons, and that is something we have influence over. I have been to Millennium [3], and it is incredible. If more meals like this were available, people "liking the taste of meat" would not really matter that much, because they would LOVE the taste of this stuff. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country [2] https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/california/san-francisco/restaurants/vegan-90?sort=distance https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/california/san-francisco/re... [3] https://www.millenniumrestaurant.com/ https://www.millenniumrestaurant.com/
- xyproto 2y ago
  Is there any data indicating that a preference for meat is not genetic?
- hnlmorg 2y ago
  > Because it is either cultural, or it is genetic. And I doubt Indians have a genetic mutation that makes them vegetarian, I think it is cultural. If a good curry is what makes more people vegetarian, then we can cook good curries anywhere. You’ve completely ignored what I said. 1. Some people like the taste of meat. Saying they shouldn’t and it’s just a cultural thing misses the point that the flavour is desirable. This is why I suggested other means of sourcing that protein which is ethical is a better path forward than simply saying we need to change culture. 2. I’d already said in curries the meat isn’t the hero of the dish. > In a meat-heavy culture, a lot of people might not realize how much they would like vegetarian meals! “You shouldn’t like X, you should learn to love a completely different thing instead” is, frankly, a silly argument. What needs to happen instead is X is replaced with an ethical alternative. In this case, lab grown meat. As I’ve said already, most meat eaters will enjoy a lot of vegetarian meals too. The problem is they also like the taste of meat. So there needs to be an ethical alternative and soybeans sadly isn’t it. > Not to be snarky, but that is the definition of a vegetarian dish. The fact you’ve commented saying that proves you’ve not been reading my comment properly. > A good vegan meal is one where it's not just trying to emulate meat based foods, but building a flavor profile that celebrates the actual vegetables and other ingredients in harmony. That’s literally the point I was making that you knee jerk argued against!
wheels 2y ago
What is cultural is how much meat eating seems reasonable. I love meat, but both my own ethics and those of my social group basically tell me not to eat too much of it. Same for say, something like drinking beer. People like beer. But drinking too much of it too often isn't socially acceptable. I'm from a family where one of my grandfathers was a cattle rancher and the other one a butcher, still I only eat about 1 kg of meat a month. I was terrified recently to learn that that's 10% of average American consumption. But I go in for the good shit. A little smoked meat goes a long way in altering the flavor profile of a dish. I love cooking myself a €20 steak, but I only do that every couple months. I save my fat caps and off-cuts to make sausage every few months. I only buy organic or meat with another animal welfare certification. It's expensive. As it should be.
- hnlmorg 2y ago
  That’s fair. But I think the only way to change that is to have substitutes that are equivalent in taste and cost. Though even there, it would be an uphill battle fighting the farming lobbyists.
  - wheels 2y ago
    I think it's more likely to expect the changes to be largely generational. That's how most dietary trends change. I give my kids less meat than my parents did, and they'll probably give their kids even less. The other piece is that meat should have its externalities priced in. We shouldn't be doing to animals the things we do in factory farming. Not being shitty to animals makes animal products a lot more expensive, which generally means people consume less of them. A carbon tax also wouldn't be crazy. People eat a lot more meat than they used to because it's cheap now. Eating meat with every meal is a relatively recent cultural phenomenon in the west. Making it not cheap again would put us back to where we were a few generations back. People liked cigarettes as much as they liked meat, but social norms, policy changes and price hikes have made it to where people smoke now a lot less than they used to. Having a cheap / enjoyable alternative is a nice route, but it's not the only one.

TaylorAlexander 2y ago

> It’s not a cultural thing, some people just like the taste of meat. Can you explain why 20-39% of Indians, or 276 million Indians, are vegetarian while in China, Chile, Colombia, and France (to pick a few) it is 5%? [1] Because it is either cultural, or it is genetic. And I doubt Indians have a genetic mutation that makes them vegetarian, I think it is cultural. If a good curry is what makes more people vegetarian, then we can cook good curries anywhere. In a meat-heavy culture, a lot of people might not realize how much they would like vegetarian meals! > I like some vegetarian and vegan dishes but they have to be meals where meat isn’t the “hero” of that dish. Not to be snarky, but that is the definition of a vegetarian dish. But I know what you mean, and you are right, meat substitutes do not make for very good vegan meals. A good vegan meal is one where it's not just trying to emulate meat based foods, but building a flavor profile that celebrates the actual vegetables and other ingredients in harmony. Go to any of these Michelin rated vegan restaurants [2] for example, and you will find absolutely incredible tasting vegan meals. It takes culture to spread this kind of thing to chefs and patrons, and that is something we have influence over. I have been to Millennium [3], and it is incredible. If more meals like this were available, people "liking the taste of meat" would not really matter that much, because they would LOVE the taste of this stuff. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country [2] https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/california/san-francisco/restaurants/vegan-90?sort=distance https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/california/san-francisco/re... [3] https://www.millenniumrestaurant.com/ https://www.millenniumrestaurant.com/

xyproto 2y ago
Is there any data indicating that a preference for meat is not genetic?
hnlmorg 2y ago
> Because it is either cultural, or it is genetic. And I doubt Indians have a genetic mutation that makes them vegetarian, I think it is cultural. If a good curry is what makes more people vegetarian, then we can cook good curries anywhere. You’ve completely ignored what I said. 1. Some people like the taste of meat. Saying they shouldn’t and it’s just a cultural thing misses the point that the flavour is desirable. This is why I suggested other means of sourcing that protein which is ethical is a better path forward than simply saying we need to change culture. 2. I’d already said in curries the meat isn’t the hero of the dish. > In a meat-heavy culture, a lot of people might not realize how much they would like vegetarian meals! “You shouldn’t like X, you should learn to love a completely different thing instead” is, frankly, a silly argument. What needs to happen instead is X is replaced with an ethical alternative. In this case, lab grown meat. As I’ve said already, most meat eaters will enjoy a lot of vegetarian meals too. The problem is they also like the taste of meat. So there needs to be an ethical alternative and soybeans sadly isn’t it. > Not to be snarky, but that is the definition of a vegetarian dish. The fact you’ve commented saying that proves you’ve not been reading my comment properly. > A good vegan meal is one where it's not just trying to emulate meat based foods, but building a flavor profile that celebrates the actual vegetables and other ingredients in harmony. That’s literally the point I was making that you knee jerk argued against!

wheels 2y ago

What is cultural is how much meat eating seems reasonable. I love meat, but both my own ethics and those of my social group basically tell me not to eat too much of it. Same for say, something like drinking beer. People like beer. But drinking too much of it too often isn't socially acceptable. I'm from a family where one of my grandfathers was a cattle rancher and the other one a butcher, still I only eat about 1 kg of meat a month. I was terrified recently to learn that that's 10% of average American consumption. But I go in for the good shit. A little smoked meat goes a long way in altering the flavor profile of a dish. I love cooking myself a €20 steak, but I only do that every couple months. I save my fat caps and off-cuts to make sausage every few months. I only buy organic or meat with another animal welfare certification. It's expensive. As it should be.

hnlmorg 2y ago
That’s fair. But I think the only way to change that is to have substitutes that are equivalent in taste and cost. Though even there, it would be an uphill battle fighting the farming lobbyists.
- wheels 2y ago
  I think it's more likely to expect the changes to be largely generational. That's how most dietary trends change. I give my kids less meat than my parents did, and they'll probably give their kids even less. The other piece is that meat should have its externalities priced in. We shouldn't be doing to animals the things we do in factory farming. Not being shitty to animals makes animal products a lot more expensive, which generally means people consume less of them. A carbon tax also wouldn't be crazy. People eat a lot more meat than they used to because it's cheap now. Eating meat with every meal is a relatively recent cultural phenomenon in the west. Making it not cheap again would put us back to where we were a few generations back. People liked cigarettes as much as they liked meat, but social norms, policy changes and price hikes have made it to where people smoke now a lot less than they used to. Having a cheap / enjoyable alternative is a nice route, but it's not the only one.