4 ms·

We also leave the future with all the infrastructure we build, and you may provide your children with some direct inheritance if you manage to save instead of w

We also leave the future with all the infrastructure we build, and you may provide your children with some direct inheritance if you manage to save instead of wasting capital on trinkets.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
https://www.newyorker.com/cartoon/a16995 https://www.newyorker.com/cartoon/a16995 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeboat_ethics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeboat_ethics
- thriftwy 2y ago
  It does not look like our numbers are increasing anymore, so I don't see how the latter is applicable. Middle East and Africa are booming and this is not ending well, but I just don't see what can be done about it.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    You misunderstand population momentum. While fertility rates are rapidly declining, the global population still increases, and is projected to peak at ~10-11B people around 2100 (up from ~8B today). India will surpass China in total population around 2027, while already experiencing wet bulb temperatures beyond what the human body can survive. > but I just don't see what can be done about it. Agreed. https://populationeducation.org/population-momentum-explained/ https://populationeducation.org/population-momentum-explaine... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population https://www.un.org/ht/desa/world-population-projected-reach-98-billion-2050-and-112-billion-2100 https://www.un.org/ht/desa/world-population-projected-reach-... https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/06/17/worlds-population-is-projected-to-nearly-stop-growing-by-the-end-of-the-century/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/06/17/worlds-po... https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2305427120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2305427120 https://archive.today/9sYS8 https://archive.today/9sYS8
    - kortilla 2y ago
      Wet bulb temperatures are about as relevant as hypothermia temperatures. We just invented the technology for heating long before air conditioning so uninformed people like to trot it out like it’s some relevant barrier where people will die in mass. They will just move to colder climates or generate some electricity to use air conditioning.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - toomuchtodo 2y ago
        Global expert on heat stress indicates wet bulb temperatures are relevant as recently as August of 2023. Please feel free to share data your assertion is based on, and how you’re going to relocate or provide AC for billions of people in the developing world. https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/how-is-climate-change-driving-dangerous-wet-bulb-temperatures-2023-08-09/ https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/how-is-climate-... https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0913352107 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0913352107
        kortilla 2y ago
        How did people in Europe and North America avoid dying from the cold? I’m not saying it’s not a problem people need to deal with. I’m saying it’s a problem there is already a solution for. Elderly people die in temperatures down in 90F as well. For some reason it’s considered acceptable to “chalk it up to climate” when we allow that to happen but we go to pretty great lengths to provide shelters to prevent people from freezing to death in completely inhospitable places like New York, Detroit, Minneapolis, etc. Billions of people in the developing world will need food and water. They will also need shelter. News at 10
  - eru 2y ago
    Booming in what sense? And 'not ending well' in what sense? Egypt and Turkey aren't exactly booming for example.
    - selimthegrim 2y ago
      thriftwy meant population, but he is also an expert on optimum land use apparently
    - thriftwy 2y ago
      Egypt is Russian Federation worth of human lives on a Volga region worth of land, most of which is desert. That does not sound sustainable to me.
      - eru 2y ago
        What is not sustainable about it? I hope you know that international trade in food is a thing? As long as they can make stuff that the people who can make food want, it's all fine. (And you also know that Egypt is just about the oldest country on the planet? They always had their population concentrated in a narrow strip along the Nile; even if, like in the rest of the world, population numbers have obviously gone up a lot since eg the industrial revolution.)
seoulmetro 2y ago
I love the idea of leaving infrastructure to our kids. But that doesn't even exist anymore. We're leaving the maintenance of poorly build infrastructure to our kids. We, and our kids will only reap reward from the infrastructure created over 100 years ago. The rest they will reap the maintenance required on the current stuff. Old things were built for us and our future, now we build for ourselves (barely).
- thriftwy 2y ago
  This seems to be an issue with USA where the only infrastructural things seems to be mounting debt. China was building roads, rail and metros like crazy in the last 20 years. Moscow has got second metro ring and some highways are finally materializing. India probably has it all in the future as it is not satiated capital-wise. Buying a spare apartment for your children does not seem out of reach for many people, so their children do not have to ever cope with debt trap or face possibility of eviction. The West does indeed seem to be in a spending ideology crisis but it is not that relevant anymore.
  - eru 2y ago
    Singapore for example is doing just fine in that regard, and is definitely part of the 'west'. Russia is currently in a big war that destroys a lot of accumulated capital. So I wouldn't exactly take them as a prime example of good stewardship. And even the much maligned US is doing just fine. It's just that their public infrastructure isn't doing as well as they should (for various governance reasons), but most private investment is holding up well. Their private sector is still the envy of the world; their public stock markets are still about as valuable as the rest of the world's combined.
    - seoulmetro 2y ago
      Singapore isn't a part of the concept of "the West"...
      - eru 2y ago

We also leave the future with all the infrastructure we build, and you may provide your children with some direct inheritance if you manage to save instead of wasting capital on trinkets.

toomuchtodo 2y ago

https://www.newyorker.com/cartoon/a16995 https://www.newyorker.com/cartoon/a16995 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeboat_ethics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeboat_ethics

thriftwy 2y ago
It does not look like our numbers are increasing anymore, so I don't see how the latter is applicable. Middle East and Africa are booming and this is not ending well, but I just don't see what can be done about it.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  You misunderstand population momentum. While fertility rates are rapidly declining, the global population still increases, and is projected to peak at ~10-11B people around 2100 (up from ~8B today). India will surpass China in total population around 2027, while already experiencing wet bulb temperatures beyond what the human body can survive. > but I just don't see what can be done about it. Agreed. https://populationeducation.org/population-momentum-explained/ https://populationeducation.org/population-momentum-explaine... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population https://www.un.org/ht/desa/world-population-projected-reach-98-billion-2050-and-112-billion-2100 https://www.un.org/ht/desa/world-population-projected-reach-... https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/06/17/worlds-population-is-projected-to-nearly-stop-growing-by-the-end-of-the-century/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/06/17/worlds-po... https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2305427120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2305427120 https://archive.today/9sYS8 https://archive.today/9sYS8
  - kortilla 2y ago
    Wet bulb temperatures are about as relevant as hypothermia temperatures. We just invented the technology for heating long before air conditioning so uninformed people like to trot it out like it’s some relevant barrier where people will die in mass. They will just move to colder climates or generate some electricity to use air conditioning.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      Global expert on heat stress indicates wet bulb temperatures are relevant as recently as August of 2023. Please feel free to share data your assertion is based on, and how you’re going to relocate or provide AC for billions of people in the developing world. https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/how-is-climate-change-driving-dangerous-wet-bulb-temperatures-2023-08-09/ https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/how-is-climate-... https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0913352107 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0913352107
      - kortilla 2y ago
        How did people in Europe and North America avoid dying from the cold? I’m not saying it’s not a problem people need to deal with. I’m saying it’s a problem there is already a solution for. Elderly people die in temperatures down in 90F as well. For some reason it’s considered acceptable to “chalk it up to climate” when we allow that to happen but we go to pretty great lengths to provide shelters to prevent people from freezing to death in completely inhospitable places like New York, Detroit, Minneapolis, etc. Billions of people in the developing world will need food and water. They will also need shelter. News at 10
- eru 2y ago
  Booming in what sense? And 'not ending well' in what sense? Egypt and Turkey aren't exactly booming for example.
  - selimthegrim 2y ago
    thriftwy meant population, but he is also an expert on optimum land use apparently
  - thriftwy 2y ago
    Egypt is Russian Federation worth of human lives on a Volga region worth of land, most of which is desert. That does not sound sustainable to me.
    - eru 2y ago
      What is not sustainable about it? I hope you know that international trade in food is a thing? As long as they can make stuff that the people who can make food want, it's all fine. (And you also know that Egypt is just about the oldest country on the planet? They always had their population concentrated in a narrow strip along the Nile; even if, like in the rest of the world, population numbers have obviously gone up a lot since eg the industrial revolution.)

seoulmetro 2y ago

I love the idea of leaving infrastructure to our kids. But that doesn't even exist anymore. We're leaving the maintenance of poorly build infrastructure to our kids. We, and our kids will only reap reward from the infrastructure created over 100 years ago. The rest they will reap the maintenance required on the current stuff. Old things were built for us and our future, now we build for ourselves (barely).

thriftwy 2y ago
This seems to be an issue with USA where the only infrastructural things seems to be mounting debt. China was building roads, rail and metros like crazy in the last 20 years. Moscow has got second metro ring and some highways are finally materializing. India probably has it all in the future as it is not satiated capital-wise. Buying a spare apartment for your children does not seem out of reach for many people, so their children do not have to ever cope with debt trap or face possibility of eviction. The West does indeed seem to be in a spending ideology crisis but it is not that relevant anymore.
- eru 2y ago
  Singapore for example is doing just fine in that regard, and is definitely part of the 'west'. Russia is currently in a big war that destroys a lot of accumulated capital. So I wouldn't exactly take them as a prime example of good stewardship. And even the much maligned US is doing just fine. It's just that their public infrastructure isn't doing as well as they should (for various governance reasons), but most private investment is holding up well. Their private sector is still the envy of the world; their public stock markets are still about as valuable as the rest of the world's combined.
  - seoulmetro 2y ago
    Singapore isn't a part of the concept of "the West"...
    - eru 2y ago