4 ms·

Freeing literature and knowledge is no excuse for violating federal copyright laws

OutOfHere 2y ago
How is it even a violation if it's outside the US? Argentina is an independent country. US laws do not apply there. I'm sure the random person violates a number of laws of Iran and/or other autocratic countries with one's online comments. Should these countries serve up extradition papers for them?
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  You seem to already know what an extradition treaty is, so why is this even a question?
  - OutOfHere 2y ago
    What I'm saying is that there was no law of the US that was even violated within the jurisdiction of the US. This is different from incidents of hacking where US assets get attacked. As such, the I.P. charges seem entirely baseless to me. The extradition treaty applies only if a crime is actually committed in a jurisdiction where it is a crime. I do not see this here.
    - saalweachter 2y ago
      Countries have treaties with each other to recognize and protect each other's copyrights.
- gmiller123456 2y ago
  Generally if your victims are in a country, other (friendly) countries will arrest and extradite you if the crime is serious enough to justify the effort. There is no "world police" that forbid countries from prosecuting crimes committed outside their borders. A lot of it boils down to how friendly the two countries are with each other, and how serious they view the crime.
- suprjami 2y ago
  There are many international intellectual property agreements which effectively make one country's copyright laws apply in another country. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIPS_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIPS_Agreement While I agree many copyright laws are broken in many ways, this sort of agreement is also what makes the GPL of source code copyright holders enforceable in other countries. Chinese GPL violators were a big deal in 3D printing a few years ago, with many companies not releasing their 3D printer firmware source based off the Marlin GPL software. It's been a while since I followed that but it's apparently got real legal precedent now, with a Chinese court fining a local GPL violator: https://segmentfault.com/a/1190000040661920/en https://segmentfault.com/a/1190000040661920/en
TrapLord_Rhodo 2y ago
What if those laws hold back the society at large? There is no evidence that the availibilty of Tor decreases sales in the works themselves. Quite the contrary, while i don't use z library specifically, i often use the open librarys to speed read through certain sections before i decide to buy the print, or through kindle just because the experience is that much better. The powers that be offer us a contract where all our data is open and available for selling, training, marketing and general manipulation but yet when someone maintains a decentralized directory of books they get punished by the full extent of the law. In this particular case, the United States can't even provide a list of copyrights that are being violated and the judge was removed for collusion. This is where my taxpayer dollars are going?...
- A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
  > There is no evidence that the availibilty of Tor decreases sales in the works themselves. Quite the contrary, while i don't use z library specifically, i often use the open librarys to speed read through certain sections before i decide to buy the print, or through kindle just because the experience is that much better. Seriously. If you're an author, do you know how much it costs to have your book distributed, for free, via NetGalley? The answer is anywhere from $700 to $1500. It costs anywhere from $1500 to $6000 to have an "Open Access" scientific paper published. As an author, I love to see my stuff available on free platforms. To me, there's no downside. I've even paid open access fees out of pocket.
  - nullindividual 2y ago
    As an author of two technical books, it cost me $0 to distribute because that was the publisher's job. I got paid a pittance for the amount of time put into the works. I wouldn't have seen any more or less if someone pirated the books.
    - alfiedotwtf 2y ago
      To add to this, I pirate books to see if it’s worth me buying the physical copy.
localfirst 2y ago
you are being downvoted because you are implying that US copyright laws is moral and just, it is not. it extracts rent at the behest of those few that makes bulk of the profits not the actual creators who doesn't want peoples lives ruined for simply consuming their content from everyone that seeks privilege for something by on its own cannot place any sort of control on the viewer. its only because the threat of violence and draconian enforcers who think someone sharing an episode simpsons is a national security threat that we "respect" US copyright laws. It's nothing short of digital colonialism ex) Megaupload was raided by tier 1 new zealand special forcese at the behest of President Biden and the MPAA lobby that put him in power in direct violation of NZ's sovereignty

How is it even a violation if it's outside the US? Argentina is an independent country. US laws do not apply there. I'm sure the random person violates a number of laws of Iran and/or other autocratic countries with one's online comments. Should these countries serve up extradition papers for them?

ranger_danger 2y ago
You seem to already know what an extradition treaty is, so why is this even a question?
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  What I'm saying is that there was no law of the US that was even violated within the jurisdiction of the US. This is different from incidents of hacking where US assets get attacked. As such, the I.P. charges seem entirely baseless to me. The extradition treaty applies only if a crime is actually committed in a jurisdiction where it is a crime. I do not see this here.
  - saalweachter 2y ago
    Countries have treaties with each other to recognize and protect each other's copyrights.
gmiller123456 2y ago
Generally if your victims are in a country, other (friendly) countries will arrest and extradite you if the crime is serious enough to justify the effort. There is no "world police" that forbid countries from prosecuting crimes committed outside their borders. A lot of it boils down to how friendly the two countries are with each other, and how serious they view the crime.
suprjami 2y ago
There are many international intellectual property agreements which effectively make one country's copyright laws apply in another country. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIPS_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIPS_Agreement While I agree many copyright laws are broken in many ways, this sort of agreement is also what makes the GPL of source code copyright holders enforceable in other countries. Chinese GPL violators were a big deal in 3D printing a few years ago, with many companies not releasing their 3D printer firmware source based off the Marlin GPL software. It's been a while since I followed that but it's apparently got real legal precedent now, with a Chinese court fining a local GPL violator: https://segmentfault.com/a/1190000040661920/en https://segmentfault.com/a/1190000040661920/en

TrapLord_Rhodo 2y ago

What if those laws hold back the society at large? There is no evidence that the availibilty of Tor decreases sales in the works themselves. Quite the contrary, while i don't use z library specifically, i often use the open librarys to speed read through certain sections before i decide to buy the print, or through kindle just because the experience is that much better. The powers that be offer us a contract where all our data is open and available for selling, training, marketing and general manipulation but yet when someone maintains a decentralized directory of books they get punished by the full extent of the law. In this particular case, the United States can't even provide a list of copyrights that are being violated and the judge was removed for collusion. This is where my taxpayer dollars are going?...

A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
> There is no evidence that the availibilty of Tor decreases sales in the works themselves. Quite the contrary, while i don't use z library specifically, i often use the open librarys to speed read through certain sections before i decide to buy the print, or through kindle just because the experience is that much better. Seriously. If you're an author, do you know how much it costs to have your book distributed, for free, via NetGalley? The answer is anywhere from $700 to $1500. It costs anywhere from $1500 to $6000 to have an "Open Access" scientific paper published. As an author, I love to see my stuff available on free platforms. To me, there's no downside. I've even paid open access fees out of pocket.
- nullindividual 2y ago
  As an author of two technical books, it cost me $0 to distribute because that was the publisher's job. I got paid a pittance for the amount of time put into the works. I wouldn't have seen any more or less if someone pirated the books.
  - alfiedotwtf 2y ago
    To add to this, I pirate books to see if it’s worth me buying the physical copy.

localfirst 2y ago

you are being downvoted because you are implying that US copyright laws is moral and just, it is not. it extracts rent at the behest of those few that makes bulk of the profits not the actual creators who doesn't want peoples lives ruined for simply consuming their content from everyone that seeks privilege for something by on its own cannot place any sort of control on the viewer. its only because the threat of violence and draconian enforcers who think someone sharing an episode simpsons is a national security threat that we "respect" US copyright laws. It's nothing short of digital colonialism ex) Megaupload was raided by tier 1 new zealand special forcese at the behest of President Biden and the MPAA lobby that put him in power in direct violation of NZ's sovereignty