6 ms·

Flying requires an ID. Attending a concert should not. Any solution that is solved by "simple, just require an ID" is not a solution.

itishappy 2y ago
> Flying requires an ID. Attending a concert should not. Why though? Not disagreeing per say because I'd have thought so too, but upon reflection... I assume the main reason airlines require an ID is safety and security. We maintain a denied parties list and use identity verification to make it as difficult as possible to fly a plane into a crowded venue. Border control is another issue, but there's plenty of intra-country or intra-state flights where this isn't an issue. Ticketmaster sells unverified access to crowded venues.
- jmb99 2y ago
  Is your argument that people should be unable to attend concerts/etc without presenting ID? I for one am not a fan of that idea
  - itishappy 2y ago
    I'm not a fan of it either. Just sayin' that concerts and events are where the densest crowds are. Are we protecting people from doing things to events more than the events themselves? I'd hope this is an argument for more granular control. I'd love to fly short-hops without ID, but maybe TSwift concerts should require something? (Edit: Do they? Events/venues do start to have their own security at some point. Flights also have different controls for national vs international.) I'm also probably overly discounting border control. Traceability in particular. I'm not a fan of this either.
  - fnfjfk 2y ago
    You need to show one to get a drinking wristband anyways (and avoid the hand Xs), or into any 16+, 18+, or 21+ show.
    - prmoustache 2y ago
      This is not universal.
- jasomill 2y ago
  I assume the main reason airlines require ID (for domestic flights) is to prevent ticket resale, and that "security" is just a convenient scapegoat. And I'm not alone[1]. [1] https://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram/archives/2003/0815.html#6 https://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram/archives/2003/0815.html...
- rangestransform 2y ago
  Because we ought to do everything in our power to stop the aggressive onslaught of the surveillance state. We already know TSA is security theatre at best, and the time they’ve wasted already justifies more lives lost to terrorism instead. Practically, I don’t want Ticketmaster having access to the information on my ID, they already leaked lot of my other PII.
627467 2y ago
that's really just an opinion. and I'd argue that if people really care about a fair and sustainable concert going, given how ridiculous the live event situation is, you'd support pretty common and standard requirements like ID to be shown. as others said: ID is already required to validate age in many events/venues
- mixmastamyk 2y ago
  Recent changes are anything but fair and sustainable. Front section tickets have gone from $120 to auction at $400+ at our local venue. Can no longer pay cash, have a paper ticket, be anonymous. Those are much more important to me than preventing scalping. Scalpers out front have provided a valuable service to me a dozen times over the years, when I didn’t plan well. Any solution (I didn’t ask for) that turns concerts in an international flight experience means they are dead to me. Age was traditionally checked separately and manually. Not put into a database to be bought and sold and breached.
fnfjfk 2y ago
How are you getting into shows without presenting ID for age? Every (well, every legal...) venue I've been to in NYC cards to see if you are 21.
- plorkyeran 2y ago
  I have never had to show ID to get into a concert other than tiny shows at bars. Every larger venue around here (SF) I’ve been to checks IDs to get a wrist band which lets you buy drinks, but you can just skip that if you aren’t drinking.
- ssl-3 2y ago
  I've been to many [big, small] well-known, legit shows in the US as a kid who was not yet an adult. I did not have an ID, and none was required to get in. All-ages shows are definitely things that exist.
noirscape 2y ago
Depends a lot on the country you live in. In most European countries "carrying an ID" is legally required if the police stops you anyway (they do need a reason to see it though), so "show an ID at the entrance" is no big deal. It's to my understanding mainly the US where ID requirements are often side eyed because many people don't have them and there's no national standard (and due to a variety of political reasons there probably won't ever be any.)
- rangestransform 2y ago
  What the hell kind of draconian country forces you to always have an id on you? What if I go running with only my watch on (I’ve regularly done this with no malicious intent)
  - tl90 2y ago
    In my home country (Hungary) it is mandatory if you leave your home more than 500 meters and as far as I know, most European countries have similar rules.
  - martijnarts 2y ago
    Lots of nations require carrying some form of ID: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card_policies_by_country#Countries_with_non-compulsory_identity_cards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card... In the US, permanent residents are required to carry their green card at all times. Here's a description of the law for the Netherlands, where I live: https://www.government.nl/topics/identification-documents/compulsory-identification https://www.government.nl/topics/identification-documents/co...
    - garaetjjte 2y ago
      There's difference between mandatory possession of ID, and requirement to carry it all the time. This list doesn't distinguish between that.
  - slackfan 2y ago

itishappy 2y ago

> Flying requires an ID. Attending a concert should not. Why though? Not disagreeing per say because I'd have thought so too, but upon reflection... I assume the main reason airlines require an ID is safety and security. We maintain a denied parties list and use identity verification to make it as difficult as possible to fly a plane into a crowded venue. Border control is another issue, but there's plenty of intra-country or intra-state flights where this isn't an issue. Ticketmaster sells unverified access to crowded venues.

jmb99 2y ago
Is your argument that people should be unable to attend concerts/etc without presenting ID? I for one am not a fan of that idea
- itishappy 2y ago
  I'm not a fan of it either. Just sayin' that concerts and events are where the densest crowds are. Are we protecting people from doing things to events more than the events themselves? I'd hope this is an argument for more granular control. I'd love to fly short-hops without ID, but maybe TSwift concerts should require something? (Edit: Do they? Events/venues do start to have their own security at some point. Flights also have different controls for national vs international.) I'm also probably overly discounting border control. Traceability in particular. I'm not a fan of this either.
- fnfjfk 2y ago
  You need to show one to get a drinking wristband anyways (and avoid the hand Xs), or into any 16+, 18+, or 21+ show.
  - prmoustache 2y ago
    This is not universal.
jasomill 2y ago
I assume the main reason airlines require ID (for domestic flights) is to prevent ticket resale, and that "security" is just a convenient scapegoat. And I'm not alone[1]. [1] https://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram/archives/2003/0815.html#6 https://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram/archives/2003/0815.html...
rangestransform 2y ago
Because we ought to do everything in our power to stop the aggressive onslaught of the surveillance state. We already know TSA is security theatre at best, and the time they’ve wasted already justifies more lives lost to terrorism instead. Practically, I don’t want Ticketmaster having access to the information on my ID, they already leaked lot of my other PII.

627467 2y ago

that's really just an opinion. and I'd argue that if people really care about a fair and sustainable concert going, given how ridiculous the live event situation is, you'd support pretty common and standard requirements like ID to be shown. as others said: ID is already required to validate age in many events/venues

mixmastamyk 2y ago
Recent changes are anything but fair and sustainable. Front section tickets have gone from $120 to auction at $400+ at our local venue. Can no longer pay cash, have a paper ticket, be anonymous. Those are much more important to me than preventing scalping. Scalpers out front have provided a valuable service to me a dozen times over the years, when I didn’t plan well. Any solution (I didn’t ask for) that turns concerts in an international flight experience means they are dead to me. Age was traditionally checked separately and manually. Not put into a database to be bought and sold and breached.

fnfjfk 2y ago

How are you getting into shows without presenting ID for age? Every (well, every legal...) venue I've been to in NYC cards to see if you are 21.

plorkyeran 2y ago
I have never had to show ID to get into a concert other than tiny shows at bars. Every larger venue around here (SF) I’ve been to checks IDs to get a wrist band which lets you buy drinks, but you can just skip that if you aren’t drinking.
ssl-3 2y ago
I've been to many [big, small] well-known, legit shows in the US as a kid who was not yet an adult. I did not have an ID, and none was required to get in. All-ages shows are definitely things that exist.

noirscape 2y ago

Depends a lot on the country you live in. In most European countries "carrying an ID" is legally required if the police stops you anyway (they do need a reason to see it though), so "show an ID at the entrance" is no big deal. It's to my understanding mainly the US where ID requirements are often side eyed because many people don't have them and there's no national standard (and due to a variety of political reasons there probably won't ever be any.)

rangestransform 2y ago
What the hell kind of draconian country forces you to always have an id on you? What if I go running with only my watch on (I’ve regularly done this with no malicious intent)
- tl90 2y ago
  In my home country (Hungary) it is mandatory if you leave your home more than 500 meters and as far as I know, most European countries have similar rules.
- martijnarts 2y ago
  Lots of nations require carrying some form of ID: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card_policies_by_country#Countries_with_non-compulsory_identity_cards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card... In the US, permanent residents are required to carry their green card at all times. Here's a description of the law for the Netherlands, where I live: https://www.government.nl/topics/identification-documents/compulsory-identification https://www.government.nl/topics/identification-documents/co...
  - garaetjjte 2y ago
    There's difference between mandatory possession of ID, and requirement to carry it all the time. This list doesn't distinguish between that.
- slackfan 2y ago