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I mean, you basically ignored the point about them buying Russian oil/gas, thus enabling the Russian war. But yes, I agree that China makes things. India doe

I mean, you basically ignored the point about them buying Russian oil/gas, thus enabling the Russian war. But yes, I agree that China makes things. India doesn't really have that excuse for using coal.

dheera 2y ago
India's government is dirt poor in comparison to China's government. Clean energy is expensive. Both governments are actually very pro-clean-energy and more willing to deploy it, given the money, than a certain two ~80-year-old farts that take turns every 4 years playing stupid politics games and picking fights.
- deleted 2y ago
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- lesuorac 2y ago
  > Clean energy is expensive. Eh, nuclear sure but in general no. That's the whole reason solar is becoming so popular is that it's cheaper [2]. If you have to pair solar with storage then it becomes more expensive [1] (general X+Y is more expensive than just X or Y). But uh, people tend to work when the sun shines so you can add a ton of solar to offset the increased energy usage during the day. [1]: https://www.powersouth.com/is-solar-cheaper-than-natural-gas/ https://www.powersouth.com/is-solar-cheaper-than-natural-gas... [2]: https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/natural_gas_vs._solar_cost_analysis_090607.pdf https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/natural_g...
  - triceratops 2y ago
    If it's such slam-dunk, why aren't all Western nations already at 100% solar and wind?
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      New builds are ~100% solar and wind.
      - triceratops 2y ago
        I'm not talking about new builds. New builds in developed countries can be 100% renewable because there's enough installed non-renewable capacity available as fallback. Developing countries don't have that.
        bryanlarsen 2y ago
        You just answered your own question. Developing nations aren't at 100% renewable because they already have a large amount of installed non-renewables.
        triceratops 2y ago
        Err...no. Developing countries tend to not have a large amount of anything. Definitionally they're poor and under-resourced. If their economies are growing, the grids are constantly playing catch-up with demand. Otherwise they're in a state of managed decline, or are an actual dumpster fire. Whatever the case may be, the one thing they don't have is reliable base generation capability. A safety net for when renewables can't produce enough.
        bryanlarsen 2y ago
        Arg, typo. Developing -> Developed in my original comment.
        triceratops 2y ago
        Gotcha. That's also why developing countries can't go 100% renewable.
      - SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
        Not all. In Alberta, all that coal has switched to natural gas, and we have had large natural gas powered plants come online as of late. https://www.aeso.ca/market/market-updates/2023/new-assets-cascade-1-and-2-cas1-and-cas2-notice/ https://www.aeso.ca/market/market-updates/2023/new-assets-ca...
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eldaisfish 2y ago
This is complete nonsense. India is among the world’s five largest economies and is continuing to grow. Part of a growing economy is falling poverty and growing electrical demand. how exactly do you propose India meet the growing electric demands of her residents? The Russian gas and oil story is more pragmatism than evil intent. One part of your comment is accurate - India’s exports are tiny relative to its population and economic size.
- twelve40 2y ago
  Indeed, one of the more nonsensical threads i've seen. Alberta farts rainbows because it doesn't make anything and nobody lives there. USA imports oil from KSA enabling KSA to do whatever the hell KSA feels like doing, all the while periodically starting wars and bombing the more stubborn oil suppliers like Libya and Iraq into submission. India and China similarly use whatever energy they can get their hands on, especially China so it can produce half-a-trillion dollars worth of cheap consumer goods every year to supply the said Americans (and even Albertans too). The ignorance is amazing.
- 486sx33 2y ago
  Renewables, conservation, and stop growing so many people.
  - twelve40 2y ago
    > stop growing so many people lol they did just that. China is not "growing so many people" anymore, and neither is India, really. I suppose they could cull some of the previously grown people to get under 5 million like Alberta and to make your advice actually useful. But maybe your obvious solutions just haven't occurred to them yet.
    - CuriousIndian 2y ago
      You need to update your racist stereotypes. India's birth rate is below the replacement rate.

dheera 2y ago

India's government is dirt poor in comparison to China's government. Clean energy is expensive. Both governments are actually very pro-clean-energy and more willing to deploy it, given the money, than a certain two ~80-year-old farts that take turns every 4 years playing stupid politics games and picking fights.

deleted 2y ago
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lesuorac 2y ago
> Clean energy is expensive. Eh, nuclear sure but in general no. That's the whole reason solar is becoming so popular is that it's cheaper [2]. If you have to pair solar with storage then it becomes more expensive [1] (general X+Y is more expensive than just X or Y). But uh, people tend to work when the sun shines so you can add a ton of solar to offset the increased energy usage during the day. [1]: https://www.powersouth.com/is-solar-cheaper-than-natural-gas/ https://www.powersouth.com/is-solar-cheaper-than-natural-gas... [2]: https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/natural_gas_vs._solar_cost_analysis_090607.pdf https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/natural_g...
- triceratops 2y ago
  If it's such slam-dunk, why aren't all Western nations already at 100% solar and wind?
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    New builds are ~100% solar and wind.
    - triceratops 2y ago
      I'm not talking about new builds. New builds in developed countries can be 100% renewable because there's enough installed non-renewable capacity available as fallback. Developing countries don't have that.
      - bryanlarsen 2y ago
        You just answered your own question. Developing nations aren't at 100% renewable because they already have a large amount of installed non-renewables.
        triceratops 2y ago
        Err...no. Developing countries tend to not have a large amount of anything. Definitionally they're poor and under-resourced. If their economies are growing, the grids are constantly playing catch-up with demand. Otherwise they're in a state of managed decline, or are an actual dumpster fire. Whatever the case may be, the one thing they don't have is reliable base generation capability. A safety net for when renewables can't produce enough.
        bryanlarsen 2y ago
        Arg, typo. Developing -> Developed in my original comment.
        triceratops 2y ago
        Gotcha. That's also why developing countries can't go 100% renewable.
    - SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
      Not all. In Alberta, all that coal has switched to natural gas, and we have had large natural gas powered plants come online as of late. https://www.aeso.ca/market/market-updates/2023/new-assets-cascade-1-and-2-cas1-and-cas2-notice/ https://www.aeso.ca/market/market-updates/2023/new-assets-ca...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

eldaisfish 2y ago

This is complete nonsense. India is among the world’s five largest economies and is continuing to grow. Part of a growing economy is falling poverty and growing electrical demand. how exactly do you propose India meet the growing electric demands of her residents? The Russian gas and oil story is more pragmatism than evil intent. One part of your comment is accurate - India’s exports are tiny relative to its population and economic size.

twelve40 2y ago
Indeed, one of the more nonsensical threads i've seen. Alberta farts rainbows because it doesn't make anything and nobody lives there. USA imports oil from KSA enabling KSA to do whatever the hell KSA feels like doing, all the while periodically starting wars and bombing the more stubborn oil suppliers like Libya and Iraq into submission. India and China similarly use whatever energy they can get their hands on, especially China so it can produce half-a-trillion dollars worth of cheap consumer goods every year to supply the said Americans (and even Albertans too). The ignorance is amazing.
486sx33 2y ago
Renewables, conservation, and stop growing so many people.
- twelve40 2y ago
  > stop growing so many people lol they did just that. China is not "growing so many people" anymore, and neither is India, really. I suppose they could cull some of the previously grown people to get under 5 million like Alberta and to make your advice actually useful. But maybe your obvious solutions just haven't occurred to them yet.
  - CuriousIndian 2y ago
    You need to update your racist stereotypes. India's birth rate is below the replacement rate.