4 ms·

Interesting. Would also like to see a similar study conducted among non-binary and gender nonconforming people.

by mouse_ 2y ago

Javalicious 2y ago
Looks like they _might_ have been in the study set, but weren't separated out and focused on? At any rate, the author is hoping for the same: "In the first edition of my book Why Gender Matters, published by Doubleday in 2005, I devoted a chapter to kids who are psychologically “gender-atypical.” I suggested that these kids are somewhere in between male and female. But the Stanford study provides little support for that claim. I am hopeful that the researchers will do follow-up studies specifically looking at individuals who are gender-nonconforming, gender-atypical, and who have gender dysphoria, to see whether and how those characteristics influence these findings."
liveoneggs 2y ago
the sample was "roughly 1,500 young adults 20 to 35 years of age" so, in today's environment, I don't think it's possible that there were not at least a few who self-identify as non-binary and nonconforming.
- riskable 2y ago
  Transgender folks are represent about half a percent of any given population. So if the study had 1500 participants that would mean ~7 were transgender. If you look at the graphs from the study those people could be the outliers but no matter what, it's not really enough people to glean anything useful.
  - empthought 2y ago
    > Transgender folks are represent about half a percent of any given population This is not accurate for the cohort under study. 5% of people under age 30 identify as transgender or nonbinary. I would personally be unsurprised if well over 100 individuals in the study identified that way. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/06/07/about-5-o...
    - rachofsunshine 2y ago
      You have to be a little bit careful with those kinds of numbers. Once you get down to a few %, actual signal starts to be swamped by troll answers, misclicks, and other sources of error. You'll basically never see a number below a few percent in any poll with a decent sample size. (As an aside, this is one of the things that makes the data on the effectiveness of transition care more remarkable than it even looks. Given the very high probability that a random person is cisgender, even moderate false-positive rates would swamp true-positives. The fact that they don't suggests false-positives are very rare indeed.)
      - empthought 2y ago
        This is a Pew Research study…
        rachofsunshine 2y ago
        What's your point? Looking at their methodology [1], it's pretty clear those sources of error would still be an issue here: > The American Trends Panel (ATP), created by Pew Research Center, is a nationally representative panel of randomly selected U.S. adults. Panelists participate via self-administered web surveys. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/trans-estimates-blog-post-methodology_final.pdf https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/trans...
        empthought 2y ago
        0.5% (as the original poster opined) is not within the 95% confidence interval of the survey. Anywhere as low as 3.2% or as high as 7.8% is within the confidence interval. I am not sure why you would knee-jerk dismiss this. My point is that it is reasonable to expect between 3% and 8% of the MRI study participants to have been trans. It is not reasonable to think that 0.5% or less would have been trans.
        rachofsunshine 2y ago
astromaniak 2y ago
The difference has two components: genetic, personal. Genetic does not depend on self identification. Personal is very similar these days. Same families, same schools. As for trans. Humans, unlike most animals, cannot even have sex without being taught. The reason is humans for many generations, million years probably, lived in groups and learned how to do it. Those who didn't have genetically hardcoded knowledge how to make kids by the time they grew up they knew it any way. It wasn't necessary and with the time it was almost lost. The same with gender identification. Everywhere boys and girls where brought up differently. So, we lost hadcoded self identification. Today human kids may grow up thinking they are dogs, or wolfs, or sheep. If they happened to grow up with animals. Conclusion is it's parents responsibility to give kids the right identity. Failure to do it, some brainwashed wokes don't do it intentionally, results in miss self-identification. Add to that 'doctors' multi-billon industry preying on them and some schools playing along to keep parents uninformed. There was a couple of months back interesting article about navy seal who had mental problems. He was brainwashed into believing he was a woman, and needs treatment and surgeries, payed by government. Later he realized he was just used to make money, and became a man again. The same happens to kids en mass. Because they are easy targets.
- Flemiklo 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - trealira 2y ago
    > And obviously we as a society created this stark contrast between male and female. Look at animal kingdom How so? Many species of animals show sexual dimorphism.
    - astromaniak 2y ago
      yep, chimpanzees are an example. we were one specie 7 mln year ago. so, it started long before humans separated from animals.

Interesting. Would also like to see a similar study conducted among non-binary and gender nonconforming people.

by mouse_ 2y ago

Interesting. Would also like to see a similar study conducted among non-binary and gender nonconforming people.

Looks like they _might_ have been in the study set, but weren't separated out and focused on? At any rate, the author is hoping for the same: "In the first edition of my book Why Gender Matters, published by Doubleday in 2005, I devoted a chapter to kids who are psychologically “gender-atypical.” I suggested that these kids are somewhere in between male and female. But the Stanford study provides little support for that claim. I am hopeful that the researchers will do follow-up studies specifically looking at individuals who are gender-nonconforming, gender-atypical, and who have gender dysphoria, to see whether and how those characteristics influence these findings."

liveoneggs 2y ago

the sample was "roughly 1,500 young adults 20 to 35 years of age" so, in today's environment, I don't think it's possible that there were not at least a few who self-identify as non-binary and nonconforming.

riskable 2y ago
Transgender folks are represent about half a percent of any given population. So if the study had 1500 participants that would mean ~7 were transgender. If you look at the graphs from the study those people could be the outliers but no matter what, it's not really enough people to glean anything useful.
- empthought 2y ago
  > Transgender folks are represent about half a percent of any given population This is not accurate for the cohort under study. 5% of people under age 30 identify as transgender or nonbinary. I would personally be unsurprised if well over 100 individuals in the study identified that way. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/06/07/about-5-o...
  - rachofsunshine 2y ago
    You have to be a little bit careful with those kinds of numbers. Once you get down to a few %, actual signal starts to be swamped by troll answers, misclicks, and other sources of error. You'll basically never see a number below a few percent in any poll with a decent sample size. (As an aside, this is one of the things that makes the data on the effectiveness of transition care more remarkable than it even looks. Given the very high probability that a random person is cisgender, even moderate false-positive rates would swamp true-positives. The fact that they don't suggests false-positives are very rare indeed.)
    - empthought 2y ago
      This is a Pew Research study…
      - rachofsunshine 2y ago
        What's your point? Looking at their methodology [1], it's pretty clear those sources of error would still be an issue here: > The American Trends Panel (ATP), created by Pew Research Center, is a nationally representative panel of randomly selected U.S. adults. Panelists participate via self-administered web surveys. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/trans-estimates-blog-post-methodology_final.pdf https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/trans...
        empthought 2y ago
        0.5% (as the original poster opined) is not within the 95% confidence interval of the survey. Anywhere as low as 3.2% or as high as 7.8% is within the confidence interval. I am not sure why you would knee-jerk dismiss this. My point is that it is reasonable to expect between 3% and 8% of the MRI study participants to have been trans. It is not reasonable to think that 0.5% or less would have been trans.
        rachofsunshine 2y ago

astromaniak 2y ago

The difference has two components: genetic, personal. Genetic does not depend on self identification. Personal is very similar these days. Same families, same schools. As for trans. Humans, unlike most animals, cannot even have sex without being taught. The reason is humans for many generations, million years probably, lived in groups and learned how to do it. Those who didn't have genetically hardcoded knowledge how to make kids by the time they grew up they knew it any way. It wasn't necessary and with the time it was almost lost. The same with gender identification. Everywhere boys and girls where brought up differently. So, we lost hadcoded self identification. Today human kids may grow up thinking they are dogs, or wolfs, or sheep. If they happened to grow up with animals. Conclusion is it's parents responsibility to give kids the right identity. Failure to do it, some brainwashed wokes don't do it intentionally, results in miss self-identification. Add to that 'doctors' multi-billon industry preying on them and some schools playing along to keep parents uninformed. There was a couple of months back interesting article about navy seal who had mental problems. He was brainwashed into believing he was a woman, and needs treatment and surgeries, payed by government. Later he realized he was just used to make money, and became a man again. The same happens to kids en mass. Because they are easy targets.

Flemiklo 2y ago
[flagged]
- trealira 2y ago
  > And obviously we as a society created this stark contrast between male and female. Look at animal kingdom How so? Many species of animals show sexual dimorphism.
  - astromaniak 2y ago
    yep, chimpanzees are an example. we were one specie 7 mln year ago. so, it started long before humans separated from animals.