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Would drone harassment have similar criminal consequences? Consider a fleet of much smaller drones “guarding” one’s airspace (putting aside that we do not own

Would drone harassment have similar criminal consequences? Consider a fleet of much smaller drones “guarding” one’s airspace (putting aside that we do not own it, which IMO is a byproduct of past legislative lack of imagination), that simply get in the way of a large delivery drone. With some level of aggressiveness.

red-iron-pine 2y ago
Drones above a certain size are regulated by the FAA and are considered aircraft. Shooting down aircraft means you'll face FAA-related charges, and they will be hefty. Under federal law, willfully shooting down an aircraft (including drones) is a felony that may lead to imprisonment (18 U.S.C. § 32)—not to mention other potential liability tied to discharging a firearm into the sky. see also: https://slate.com/technology/2016/04/faa-confirms-it-s-a-federal-crime-to-shoot-down-a-drone.html https://slate.com/technology/2016/04/faa-confirms-it-s-a-fed...
- nostrademons 2y ago
  Though if you really have fleet of drones "guarding" your airspace - will the FAA actually be able to enforce? Considering that at that point you basically have an air force, and if the drones are cheap and effective enough, it may be better than the air force available to the FAA?
  - snypher 2y ago
    Please define 'your airspace'. Can I shoot down a Delta flight at 30k feet over my house?
    - nostrademons 2y ago
      The point being made here is one about military capabilities rather than legality. If you really have a fleet of drones guarding your airspace (which implies a technology & industrial level more than anyone has publicly announced, but then, if I owned a fleet of drones I probably wouldn't announce it either), you kinda get to make the laws by virtue of being able to kill anyone who disagrees with you. So yes, you could shoot down a Delta flight at 30k feet, but the more relevant technological capability is being able to drive one of your expendable drones into the jet intake of an F-16.
      - SR2Z 2y ago
        if you can fly your drone precisely enough to be sucked into an F16 going hundreds of miles an hour faster, you are now in the realm of ITAR tech and the government can come after you for a whole bunch of crimes that have nothing to do with actually downing a jet
    - olyjohn 2y ago
      FAA has jurisdiction 400 feet above your house. So no, not at 30k feet. But maybe at 350 feet...
      - leros 2y ago
        FAA has jurisdiction down to a millimeter above your property. Class G airspace extends all the way down to the ground.
- hellojesus 2y ago
  You don't necessarily need to shoot down drones. You can have your drone (under registration-required size) intercept and collide with the target drone. Or you can have your done jam the other drone and try to confuse it into aborting its mission and doing an emergency landing. Or you could try to "swallow" the target drone and then deploy some safe-landing chute or chemically inflate a balloon to make a controlled fall. I assume there are some property damage or theft charges, but getting around faa current regulations should be doable.
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    > You don't necessarily need to shoot down drones. You can have your drone (under registration-required size) intercept and collide with the target drone. Also a crime, the same way as shining a laser at a plane to mess with the pilot is a crime. > Or you could try to "swallow" the target drone and then deploy some safe-landing chute or chemically inflate a balloon to make a controlled fall. Interfering with aircraft operations. > I assume there are some property damage or theft charges, but getting around faa current regulations should be doable. You'd assume incorrectly in the above examples.
  - red-iron-pine 2y ago
    interfering with flight operations doesn't require you to discharge a gun into the sky -- that's why they have that as a separate crime. balloons, other drones, eagles, shining a laser pointer, whatever, is also illegal. woe be to you if the FAA can figure out you did it. also true for jamming. and keep in mind the ham radio "elmers" plus the FCC -- who are very good at triangulation -- will be on your ass for trying something like that, on top of the FAA chasing you. See also: https://www.fcc.gov/general/jammer-enforcement https://www.fcc.gov/general/jammer-enforcement all of the techniques you mentioned work for a combat zone -- e.g. Ukraine, or Sudan -- but if you try those in the US you will have federal agencies on you, and they do not mess around when it comes to anything related to aircraft. source: former EW guy, work in train/aircraft/drone control systems.
    - hellojesus 2y ago
      Agreed. But I wouldn't ever deploy the above with any requirement to actively provide radio comms back to me as the host. They would operate with autopilot, gps waypoints, and engage based on ML models.
RaftPeople 2y ago
Alternatively you could plant trees.

red-iron-pine 2y ago

Drones above a certain size are regulated by the FAA and are considered aircraft. Shooting down aircraft means you'll face FAA-related charges, and they will be hefty. Under federal law, willfully shooting down an aircraft (including drones) is a felony that may lead to imprisonment (18 U.S.C. § 32)—not to mention other potential liability tied to discharging a firearm into the sky. see also: https://slate.com/technology/2016/04/faa-confirms-it-s-a-federal-crime-to-shoot-down-a-drone.html https://slate.com/technology/2016/04/faa-confirms-it-s-a-fed...

nostrademons 2y ago
Though if you really have fleet of drones "guarding" your airspace - will the FAA actually be able to enforce? Considering that at that point you basically have an air force, and if the drones are cheap and effective enough, it may be better than the air force available to the FAA?
- snypher 2y ago
  Please define 'your airspace'. Can I shoot down a Delta flight at 30k feet over my house?
  - nostrademons 2y ago
    The point being made here is one about military capabilities rather than legality. If you really have a fleet of drones guarding your airspace (which implies a technology & industrial level more than anyone has publicly announced, but then, if I owned a fleet of drones I probably wouldn't announce it either), you kinda get to make the laws by virtue of being able to kill anyone who disagrees with you. So yes, you could shoot down a Delta flight at 30k feet, but the more relevant technological capability is being able to drive one of your expendable drones into the jet intake of an F-16.
    - SR2Z 2y ago
      if you can fly your drone precisely enough to be sucked into an F16 going hundreds of miles an hour faster, you are now in the realm of ITAR tech and the government can come after you for a whole bunch of crimes that have nothing to do with actually downing a jet
  - olyjohn 2y ago
    FAA has jurisdiction 400 feet above your house. So no, not at 30k feet. But maybe at 350 feet...
    - leros 2y ago
      FAA has jurisdiction down to a millimeter above your property. Class G airspace extends all the way down to the ground.
hellojesus 2y ago
You don't necessarily need to shoot down drones. You can have your drone (under registration-required size) intercept and collide with the target drone. Or you can have your done jam the other drone and try to confuse it into aborting its mission and doing an emergency landing. Or you could try to "swallow" the target drone and then deploy some safe-landing chute or chemically inflate a balloon to make a controlled fall. I assume there are some property damage or theft charges, but getting around faa current regulations should be doable.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  > You don't necessarily need to shoot down drones. You can have your drone (under registration-required size) intercept and collide with the target drone. Also a crime, the same way as shining a laser at a plane to mess with the pilot is a crime. > Or you could try to "swallow" the target drone and then deploy some safe-landing chute or chemically inflate a balloon to make a controlled fall. Interfering with aircraft operations. > I assume there are some property damage or theft charges, but getting around faa current regulations should be doable. You'd assume incorrectly in the above examples.
- red-iron-pine 2y ago
  interfering with flight operations doesn't require you to discharge a gun into the sky -- that's why they have that as a separate crime. balloons, other drones, eagles, shining a laser pointer, whatever, is also illegal. woe be to you if the FAA can figure out you did it. also true for jamming. and keep in mind the ham radio "elmers" plus the FCC -- who are very good at triangulation -- will be on your ass for trying something like that, on top of the FAA chasing you. See also: https://www.fcc.gov/general/jammer-enforcement https://www.fcc.gov/general/jammer-enforcement all of the techniques you mentioned work for a combat zone -- e.g. Ukraine, or Sudan -- but if you try those in the US you will have federal agencies on you, and they do not mess around when it comes to anything related to aircraft. source: former EW guy, work in train/aircraft/drone control systems.
  - hellojesus 2y ago
    Agreed. But I wouldn't ever deploy the above with any requirement to actively provide radio comms back to me as the host. They would operate with autopilot, gps waypoints, and engage based on ML models.

RaftPeople 2y ago

Alternatively you could plant trees.