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Spot the Drowning Child (2015)
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- DotaFan 2y agoHaving kids and seeing that made me cry.
- aniviacat 2y agoThe poor video quality makes it artificially difficult to see. I can barely see the faces of even the people in the front.
- cbanek 2y agoYeah having a perspective that is so different from the lifeguard does make it really hard.
- dzhiurgis 2y agoThis is likely perspective you have while also browsing HN on your phone. That's the whole point - it's really hard to spot one unless you are looking for him, have training and are positioned properly.
- strken 2y agoBeing distracted by your phone and not seeing a drowning child is different from paying close attention to a low-res 2D image and not seeing a drowning child. You can't fully train for one by practising the other.
- vmfunction 2y agoThis is one of test for red cross lifeguard training. However in real life it is much better to spot drowning victims than video.
- lacrosse_tannin 2y agoskill issue
- r0ckarong 2y agoI think everyone should spend ten minutes watching these videos. I did this once eight years ago and now the "look" is so burned into my brain that I can't unsee it. I have kids now and I am glad I could possibly spot this. The lifeguards are WAY faster but it's better than not seeing this at all.
- logifail 2y ago> I have kids now and I am glad I could possibly spot this. We have three kids and I struggle to watch videos of stuff like this. No drownings in the family, thank $deity, but we've had a fairly lengthy string of medical incidents over the years. Let's just say I could probably find my way to and around both our local hospital, and the big city hospital an hour away, while blindfolded.
- lynx23 2y ago[flagged]
- cataphract 2y ago[flagged]
- lynx23 2y ago[flagged]
- fileeditview 2y agoIt is a figure of speech and surely was not disrespectful to blind people.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- lanthade 2y agoExcept that a person who is literally blind found it disrespectful. People say all sorts of stupid stuff that they don’t intend to be disrespectful but which is. When it’s pointed out by someone the appropriate response is to change your behavior, not double down and make excuses. Here’s another example: In my state (MN) it’s not uncommon for (largely) women to refer to themselves as hunting widows when their spouses go away for the weekend to hunt during the season. They say it as a joke but it’s disrespectful and diminishing to actual widows. How do I know? I’ve been widowed.
- nobodywillobsrv 2y agoHow to get more than one click without restarting? ANd how to to see the answer?
- carpenecopinum 2y agoIn most videos, there'll be a whistle-blow that marks the point where the life guard in the video reacts to the drowning person. Upon clicking the right location, you are "graded" based on how quickly relative to the life guard you reacted. You get the "answer" by looking at who is getting rescued. In my case, it started with a video that appears to be broken (?) the video just ended without any life guard reaction, but you can hit "Play Another Video" which appears afterwards.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- nobodywillobsrv 2y agoLike I can't even tell if the clicks are working and there is no answer!!!??? Is this just a gimmick?
- sloowm 2y agoIn most video's you see the lifeguard jump in and get the person out.
- sebstefan 2y agoI think it's the third or fourth time I see it (not on this website) and I've actually gotten really good at it by now! I don't know if I've trained myself to spot drowning people or specifically these drowning people though
- Patient0 2y agoNot to be that guy but this is the sort of thing I could imagine might benefit from an AI also. Train an AI to recognize drowning, and sound an alarm just in case the lifeguard misses it...
- wwilim 2y agoAnd shine a spotlight on the drowning person
- crawfishphase 2y agosend a drone that can also be used as a flotation device or use a pneumatic cannon to send a flotation device
- nobodywillobsrv 2y agoWait is this just one huge troll? I've watched quite a few and it's always ...
- thetoon 2y agoWhat is it always?
- ayhanfuat 2y agoThey are referring to the "blacks cannot swim" stereotype. Black kids are more likely to drown in pools and in these videos they appear more as well (see https://www.abc10.com/article/news/community/race-and-culture/black-children-more-likely-to-drown-in-pools/103-83c3db91-067d-431d-9547-77ae1c9b1112 https://www.abc10.com/article/news/community/race-and-cultur...).
- gexla 2y agoI feel it's more culture than race. Seems income is a big factor. Most likely to affect marginalized communities. I see it a lot in the Philippines also. Maybe it's less access to swimming lessons and pools to practice in.
- joecool1029 2y agoMuscle/fat distribution and how this influences ability to float is a big factor in drowning rates among populations without access to swim lessons. Statistically there are significant differences in that distribution based on race, age, and gender. You ever swim with clothes on? Like a pair of jeans? It's way harder, way more energy gets expended to stay above water. Even with knowing how to swim, having a reduced ability to float can be incredibly dangerous.
- soneil 2y agoIt does seem to somewhat skew the aim of the site. Account for all the black kids riding rings, account for those near depth, and then watch to see which changes. I got bored before I found any variation on the theme. I did find a couple where you could tell which kid was going to be in trouble long before it'd let you click them, which I found interesting.
- yard2010 2y agoIt's a different video each time. Refresh the page to try again. It's important in my opinion, I never would have thought that the drowning instinct is part of the problem - it silences any panic response that would grab the attention of people nearby.
- lloeki 2y agoSometimes they don't even manage to make splashes and it looks like they're just stationary when in fact they're an impending sinking stone in under 30s. I was once called out by a lifeguard about that, as I was just chilling there enjoying my own stillness in a moment of zen; the lifeguard essentially pointed out that for them it was a false positive they had to weed out, and if I wanted to be helpful I could still enjoy zenness but assume a slightly different position that made it a bit more obvious I was not a case of drowning.
- knallfrosch 2y agoAs teenagers, we had a diving competition. Stay underwater for as long as possible. Of course we saved energy by being perfectly still and 'floating' beneath the pool's metal entrance stair case — as opposed to wasting energy pushing our bodies downwards. Let's just say the lifeguard didn't like this method.
- rimunroe 2y agoMy siblings and I were avid swimmers and enjoyed diving to the bottoms of lakes and swimming around. The deepest I ever dove unassisted was 47 feet (in the ocean). Starting when I was 8 or so, we'd practice holding our breath in the bathtub as we floated face down and motionless. My record was about 2.5 minutes. I think my brother made it to 3.5 minutes. It must have been terrifying to my mom. She was clearly keeping a close eye on us, as she'd periodically tap us on our shoulders when we'd been under for an appreciable amount of time and we'd gently wave at her with our hand to let her know we were alright. I'm going to be a parent in a few months. I hope my kid takes to the water like I did, but would prefer their interests in water activities aren't quite as nerve wracking.
- JohnMakin 2y agoI didn’t know so much about the instinctive drowning response, thanks. I was a competent swimmer before I formed conscious memories and have never experienced anything like that. I have done a few water rescues but it was a clear case of someone in the water not being able to swim at all and was over quickly. I guess panic is a core feature of this response?
- darau1 2y agoYes, panic is a large part of the problem. I think I recall the feeling once, when my dad was teaching me to swim around 4 or 5. I think I tried to stand up, and just sunk, then I tried to pull myself up, and grasped at water. I figure at that point my dad just plucked me out of the water and told me to try again haha
- vincnetas 2y agoWas looking at the videos and my main take away was : "Why do they allow these floatation devices in the pool?" If you cant swim and are short enough (basically most kids) why let you climb on that slippery ballon and go in the water? It's like giving kids knifes and let them in the bouncy castle.
- JR1427 2y agoNot all pools allow them. At first I wondered why, and eventually figured it out.
- watwut 2y agoBecause slippery ballon is super fun for kids who can swim.
- dgfitz 2y agoUntil someone else falls head-first off the balloon, smashes your kid on the back of their head, and they both drown.
- watwut 2y agoAt some point, when you are figuring out increasingly unlikely accidents, maybe you should stop.
- JoshGG 2y agoA more likely danger is that a non swimmer is drowning and grabs onto another child and drags them underwater or tries to climb on top of them. This is a known danger and is a standard part of lifeguard training in the US. Drowning persons can be very dangerous to other people and to rescuers. So a drowning child can definitely endanger other kids.
- worthless-trash 2y agoCmon, we're not considering nuclear war and drowning in the radiation soaked pool ?
- anonu 2y agoPrevious HN posts with sufficient conversation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22482731 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22482731 (4 years ago) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9962185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9962185 (9 years ago) also OP posted same link 2 days ago.
- dang 2y agoThanks! Macroexpanded: Spot the Drowning Child - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26122952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26122952 - Feb 2021 (1 comment) Spot the Drowning Child (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22482731 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22482731 - March 2020 (405 comments) Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9962185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9962185 - July 2015 (378 comments) --- Btw, on a couple other points: > also OP posted same link 2 days ago It was the same link; it just got picked for the second-chance pool (https://news.ycombinator.com/pool https://news.ycombinator.com/pool, explained at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308), so it got a random placement on HN's front page. > sufficient conversation Reposts are fine on HN after a year or so! This is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html.
- bmacho 2y agoI can't find the drowning child. The comments for the youtube videos are even disabled. Some more tries, but then I'll give up. .. there is a description below the video, which seems helpful, if you ever want to spot drowning children edit: at the end of the video a lifeguard swims to the drowning child
- 3li45j3l 2y agoI was drowning once when I was 5 or 6 years old, before I learned how to swim. It was exactly as described, I felt paralyzed, couldn't make any noise at all, I was terrified and was just trying to keep my mouth above the water. Thankfully some adult spotted me and dragged me out. Now that I have 2 kids, 4 and 8, whenever I take them to the beach, I never take my eyes off of them when they are in the water.
- amluto 2y agoBeach safety is no joke. Everyone should check the local beach condition forecast before going in (or near!) the water, and everyone, even the little kids should learn about beach safety and should learn to swim. In the Bay Area (and the West Coast of North America in general), people should be aware of the existence and hazards of sneaker waves as well as the general hazards of large sections of beautiful coastline. The Bay Area and, especially, areas near and north of the Golden Gate, have some infamously dangerous beaches that look inviting and should absolutely not be used for swimming.
- worthless-trash 2y agoI'd be.. much more concerned with a rip current than a sneaker wave. (See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuAlDTC_gIQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuAlDTC_gIQ for how to spot a rip)
- amluto 2y agoMe too. I’d put rip currents in the general category of beach safety, though, along with paying attention to incoming waves when you’re in range of them, being aware of safe places to exit the water, being aware of tides, etc. Sneaker waves are among the unusual location-specific risks that are why one should research the specific beach before playing there.
- eszed 2y agoFunnily enough, I was taught how to spot rip currents by guys who thought they were a good thing. I was probably nine or so, and they were college students, showing me how to body surf. We spent a couple of hours jumping into a rip, riding it out, swimming out of it, and riding waves back in. Move down the beach to the next break, rinse, repeat. It mystified me for years afterwards when people would talk about rip currents like they were dangerous. I mean... What? I get why people get into trouble. I do think the advice to Don't Panic might sink in more easily if rip currents weren't generally talked about like they're instant death. I've inadvertently floated into one a few times. Once, with a friend who was a better swimmer than I was - I can't remember whether he said it or I did - the moment he grokked that we were in a rip current he started to panic like we were definitely going to drown. Once he calmed down we easily swam out of it. The real danger is that someone who isn't a confident swimmer will be pulled out of their depth, or that someone who may be will end up in waves they're not capable of handling. In both cases, realistic skill assessment and a conservative approach is key. Poor swimmers use floatation. No one swims when the waves are more than they can manage. Follow those rules, and rip currents needn't be scary, and can even be fun.
- nmeofthestate 2y agoHmm - I must have got an obvious one where the drowning child started flailing his arms desperately trying to stay above water, splashing a lot, which isn't what people do according to the description.
- amluto 2y agoI think this is obvious to some people and non-obvious to others. For example, look at all the people in the video who didn’t rescue the kid. source: I was once the only person, out of plenty adults outside a pool watching, to notice that one of the two people in the pool was struggling to keep their head up. This includes the kid’s mom, who was giving the kid vaguely encouraging suggestions from outside the pool. I thought it was obvious, apparently no one else around did, and I’ve never had any lifeguard training. Interestingly, the other person in the pool was the kid’s older brother. He also thought the kid needed rescuing, but he wasn’t nearly a good enough swimmer to help, and he was starting to get into trouble himself by trying to help pull the kid to the side of the pool.
- qnleigh 2y agoWould anyone be willing to explain the take-away points from these videos/how to spot someone who is drowning? I would love to be educated about this, but I don't have the stomach to actually watch these right now...
- that_guy_iain 2y agoThe tip is to look for the ones with the floating devices. They're the ones likely to not be able to swim. Then look for when the child leaves or has that device flipped over.
- Fradow 2y agoThe main takeaway is that, unless you are trained for it (like lifeguards are) and actively looking for the signs, you will probably not spot someone drowning, even if they are right next to you. Someone drowning isn't at all like pictured in movies. Those videos aim to dispel that, and maybe teach you some of the signs of someone drowning, and also that you should watch your kids closely when they're at the pool.
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- krisoft 2y ago> I would love to be educated about this, but I don't have the stomach to actually watch these right now... Understandable. Maybe it helps if I tell you that no one dies in the videos. They are all rescued by a lifeguard. There is this article which describes the same content: https://slate.com/technology/2013/06/rescuing-drowning-children-how-to-know-when-someone-is-in-trouble-in-the-water.html https://slate.com/technology/2013/06/rescuing-drowning-child... But if you just want the gist of it: Drowning people can't shout for help. They can't raise their arms and wave. They typically spread their arms forward on the surface of the water and kind of bob up and down, but their mouth and nose doesn't go above the water long enough to finish a complete breath in-out cycle.
- InDubioProRubio 2y agoThe ultimate NN challenge..
- globular-toast 2y agoThat looked exactly like what I would expect. What was I supposed to think drowning looks like?
- tejohnso 2y agoYou're supposed to think it looks like someone shouting "Help! Help! I can't swim!" while effectively moving their arms to create splashing that is easily discernible from all of the other commotion going on in the pool.
- globular-toast 2y agoReading some of the comments it seems you get a different video each time and I just happened to get one that does look exactly like what I would expect and what you described.
- notalifeguard 2y agoMy main takeaway is that I would be a terrible lifeguard: I watched five different videos and spotted zero drowning children.
- JansjoFromIkea 2y agovideo number 10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-EKqLdbysk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-EKqLdbysk) was drastically harder than the others, I couldn't even see the lifeguard jumping in at the end initially. First two refreshes of the page loaded it so I thought it was the fixed first video
- gexla 2y agoSwimming seems to be at least partly a cultural thing. In the Philippines, I'm regularly surprised by the number of people who say they can't swim. A handful of videos is a small sample, but it seems to be a similar situation here where 5 out of the first 6 videos I watched were black kids. Being a lifeguard in a high risk area would be too stressful for me. I'm stressed just watching these videos. Big respect to watchful heroes saving the day for these kids.
- karma_fountain 2y agoI'm assuming your in the US when you talk about the black kids. How much do you think US segregation on racial lines in the 20th century has an impact on this?
- tarsinge 2y agoThis is irrelevant for safety, the parent is talking about a child population potentially more at risk. A lifeguard's job is not sociology or history.
- AstralStorm 2y agoA lifeguard being there at all, however, is one.
- unregistereddev 2y agoBlack people being unable to swim is a trope in the United States, to the point of being a racist joke. There's some truth to it - black neighborhoods were less likely to have amenities like public pools, and black families were generally less able to afford paid swimming lessons for their children.
- ethagknight 2y agoIs it a trope, racist joke, or simply a statistic that needs to be known for the safety? According to CDC, child drowning victims are 3:1 blacK >>Every day, there are nearly 10 accidental drownings in the U.S., according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). That’s 3,500 people every year who die in water. Within these numbers is a startling fact: the fatal-drowning rate of Black/African-American children is three times higher than white children.
- alistairSH 2y agoEvery time I see this page, I wonder WTF we (USA) don't provide basic swimming lessons to all kids. Being able to swim competently seems like a basic life skill to me.
- beardedwizard 2y agoHow would that work exactly? At what age would it start? How would it be organized? Would parents need to consent?
- sensanaty 2y agoIn the Netherlands all kids have to learn to swim, and are taught during elementary school. There's various levels, the 3rd (IIRC) being able to navigate an underwater "obstacle course" while in school clothing and even with a backpack (I guess in case they fall into the canals on their way back from school). The obstacle course is something like just squeezing through a generously wide hole.
- tomxor 2y agoLike all other mandatory education, school. Works fine in the UK: > All children should be able to swim 25m by the end of primary school https://educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2021/07/13/did-you-know-swimming-and-water-safety-are-part-of-the-school-curriculum/ https://educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2021/07/13/did-you-know-swi...
- vintermann 2y agoSwimming lessons in school, from age 8 or so, organized like any other education (every second or third gym lesson in a couple of semesters was how it worked for me), and no need for consent? Pretty sure that's how it works in most countries that have public swimming education.
- soneil 2y agoIt's part of PE (phys.ed) here. It was just like any other class - one morning a week for one school year, you're dragged off down the muni pool.
- SpaceFarmer 2y agoI have 4 young kids and really appreciate this video. My wife and I have tried to teach each of them to swim at an early age because drowning is SO SILENT! Once we were at a local park lake with my daughter who really young. She was in like 1-2 feet of water, and we were both within 5 feet of her watching as intently as possible. Suddenly a little girl playing next to her said something like "are you ok?" which made us look and see our daughter's face was underwater and she was drowning. The whole thing lasted like 10 seconds, but it was still really scary. I think we would have seen in time regardless, but the fact that we were trying to watch so closely and almost missed it was crazy. You also have to be very careful when multiple kids are in the pool. Sometimes a kid who is a great swimmer can drown when another kid starts panicking and climbs on top of them to stay afloat.
- otachack 2y agoSecond on the "good swimmer drowning" part. I once swam in a pool with a few cousins of mine. I was around 18 and just finished a life guarding course at school. One cousin was around 11 years old. She was panicking next to me in the pool all of a sudden and climbed on top of me. She wasn't heavy but her human effort to grab and exert pressure to use me as a float to stay above water forced me under. It was hard to get back up for air, and very sudden to which I didn't have a ton of air to begin with. I remembered training, which was to pull the victim down with you to short circuit their brain into letting go, and it worked. I was able to swim out from her area, surface, catch a breath, and go help her to the shallow end.
- hilbert42 2y ago"I remembered training, which was to pull the victim down with you to short circuit their brain into letting go," That's exactly how I was taught as part of lifesaving training along with the most effective way of swimming (and 'towing') the person to safety. BTW, that was many decades ago (presumably things haven't changed much since then). .
- SpaceFarmer 2y agoAnother thing I've always wondered, why does it seem that all animals innately know how to swim, even young ones? Maybe it is just that most have 4 legs and that helps, but I'd guess monkeys know how to swim too. Not sure. I mean even snakes know how to swim haha. What makes people so bad at swimming? Our big heads?
- calibas 2y agoI got one with flailing and splashing, so it was pretty easy to spot: https://www.youtube.com/embed/aQ6h8U-rqZ4 https://www.youtube.com/embed/aQ6h8U-rqZ4 For the record, I watched a young girl start to drown. She walked out a little too far and couldn't touch the bottom anymore. She kept trying to bounce up and get breaths of air but couldn't keep her head above the water for long. There was no splashing, and she couldn't call out for help properly because she was barely getting enough air. I don't think anybody other than me noticed it happening until I rushed out to save her.
- elmer007 2y agoI think there is another element at play in these videos: in addition to being well-trained and paying attention, these lifeguards also know these kids. I think they recognize some of the kids and are on alert-- in at least one video, the lifeguard jumps in a mere 2 seconds after the kid slides off the float, and there are others that are similarly fast. Of course, it could also be that they happened to be looking at just the right time. However, in the 2-second one, the lifeguard turns to look at someone below them who splashes, then turns straight back to the section of the pool with the kid who then slides off, and in she jumps. In some cases I would guess that they either know the regular kids, or they've been watching and gradually adding/removing kids from a mental list of high-risk candidates to keep an eye on. In other words, their excellent response times are aided by both their ability to recognize the signs as well as context gained throughout the summer or that day.
- klik99 2y agoI watched a few videos and found myself analyzing how good swimmers each were and got a lot better at spotting danger by noting who looked good and checking on them less often. So I don't think you need to KNOW the kids over multiple visits, but just constantly scanning for and assessing skill level.
- elmer007 2y agoI agree, there are some that appear more competent and others that seem less so. Granted, all are capable of panicking and needing assistance, but prioritizing does look like an effective strategy.
- genewitch 2y agoi did about 20 and in a couple of the "2 second" ones i had already clicked the person the lifeguard rescued 2 or 3 times before they fell off. My best time was -15s. This would be a lot more interesting if there were videos where the lifeguard did not need to jump in, or where you had to pick within 4 or 5 seconds who you thought would need rescuing - the site didn't support this, per the "2 second" style ones i was clicking the obvious child repeatedly before the "game" decided to score it.
- lacoolj 2y agoit isn't clear this is a "click the kid" thing at first maybe add like a one-line instruction above the video