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A very sad future awaits us if a developer's only job is to write tests
by benve 2y ago
A very sad future awaits us if a developer's only job is to write tests
- _flux 2y agoMaybe in the future developers will be able to write just specifications.
- jacamera 2y agoThat's exactly what we do now.
- _flux 2y agoArguably we write instructions: instead of writing out the problem and what the solution looks like, we describe a set of steps we go through—and if those steps are incorrect, there's nothing to compare against, because that was what we called the "specification". Whether there's a difference there is in the eye of the beholder, but it does look like that specification languages such as TLA+/PlusCal/Squint or Alloy, or theorem proving languages like Coq (to be renamed Rocq) or Lean look a lot different from the likes of C, JavaScript or even Haskell.
- benve 2y agothis already happens, in many companies mid-level managers write the specifications (ambiguously) and other low-cost people implement them. And when things don't work they call people like me, to try to understand the performance problems of something poorly defined and worse written.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- tiborsaas 2y agoIt's worse, it starts by writing the test so you have to verify if the tests work :)
- philote 2y agoThat's what I don't get about this. Instead of writing code that may or may not be correct, it's writing tests that may or may not be correct.
- TuringNYC 2y agoPerhaps a minority opinion, but i LOVE writing tests. I write them before I write the code, it is like playing chess with yourself.
- benve 2y agoI appreciate that your workflow is so linear. I often write tests, then the implementation, then I realize that the tests need to be corrected, then I change the implementation, then I change the tests, then I add other tests etc... etc... I don't really like maintaining tests, it's often a lot of code that needs to be understood and changed carefully
- colechristensen 2y agoWhy? It will evolve into a slightly higher level language where the compiler is an ML model. Was it a tragedy when developers mostly didn’t have to write assembly any more?
- selcuka 2y ago> Was it a tragedy when developers mostly didn’t have to write assembly any more? It wasn't, but for starters compilers have always been generally deterministic. I'm not saying that this is completely useless (I personally think code completion tools such as GitHub CoPilot are fantastic), but it is still early to compare it to a compiler.
- benve 2y agoI think it's different... I like high level languages, but this is not a programming language, this is a technique for writing tests in an existing language and leaving the implementation to the AI. I like programming for problem solving, I don't really like writing tests, but that's personal taste, a lot of people like to just use PowerPoint and Jira and tell others what they need to implement, but these people are not software developers.
- root_axis 2y agoI've tried these LLM "code from test" things (and vice-versa) dozens of times over the last couple of years... they're not even close to approaching being practical.
- awwaiid 2y agoI knew declarative languages would eventually win!
- autonomousErwin 2y agoReally it's just validator code instead of feature code. I think this is the only realistic way forward for production level code written by AI, don't ask it to write code - ask it to pass your validation tests. Essentially, everyone becomes a red team member trying to think of clever ways they can outwit the AI's code which I for one think this is going to be a lot of fun in the future - though we're still quite a way from there yet!