4 ms·

You put in place an incentive to not do these things. Corporate executives and boards do these things because they're incentivized to do so through stock price-

You put in place an incentive to not do these things. Corporate executives and boards do these things because they're incentivized to do so through stock price-based compensation. Great risk should come with great reward. We no longer assign risk to most executives at publicly-traded, multinational corporations, but the reward is still great. I'll leave it to your imagination to figure out what the risk should be, but it should be something that a golden parachute shouldn't be able to resolve.

thuuuomas 2y ago
If your safety systems fail, we pierce the corporate veil.
bluGill 2y ago
> I'll leave it to your imagination to figure out what the risk should be, but it should be something that a golden parachute shouldn't be able to resolve. I agree with that statement, but want so add: I believe that whatever you propose will have significant problems and is likely worse than the status quo in some major way. Sometimes I'll only be able to tell you what those problems are in hindsight. Sometimes those problems are fixable sometimes not. Don't let this dissuade you from thinking about the problem - it needs to be thought about. However do think about is in more than a shallow way, look at it from all viewpoints (including ones of people who disagree with) try to see what the downsides are and how to mitigate them. Good luck, if enough people do this maybe someone will come up with a good enough answer, (as opposed to perfect!) and you will understand the problem well enough to help debate why the downsides are worth it.
- carapace 2y ago
  Planes are falling out of the sky. I'm a fan of nuance but we're a little past that now.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Even with that, flying is still vastly safer than driving. We thus know there is a level of risk society is willing to accept.
    - carapace 2y ago
      There's no "even with that"!? Planes fly. If they don't fly people die. This is not an acceptable regression.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
> Great risk should come with great reward. In today's culture, I often hear C-suiters talking about how much "risk" they are taking, to justify their outrageous salaries and stock holdings, but I almost never see them pay much, in the way of penalties, except for the very smallest, most "raw" companies, where they have, literally, sunk their entire net worth into the endeavor. It seems that, once a company has reached a certain threshold, the only real "risk" that executives experience, is that they'll only get a 5% bonus, instead of 30%. So, only $5M, as opposed to $30M. AUTHORITEH: "Put out your hand!" GUILTEH: "OK" AUTHORITEH: <SLAP> "Bad Executive! Bad, bad, Executive! Don't let it happen again! See you at the party on Saturday?"
- LargeWu 2y ago
  Additionally, even when they fail spectacularly, they often get golden parachute payments in the 10's of millions of dollars.
- cellis 2y ago
  Boeing employs millions (mostly indirectly via downstream cottage industries) of people and I think is the leading net exporter by revenue of the US. Politicians don’t want to hurt them too badly because all those employees vote.
  - lenerdenator 2y ago
    That's why you limit the liability of the company as a whole, but create great risk for the actual executives who decided that safety came second to the profit margin. Again, you can imagine what that would be, but when you compensation is in the tens of millions and there are hundreds dead, well... the risk has overcome the reward and the punishment should match. Boeing's problem is its management. If you tell the rank-and-file worker to use the company's billions of dollars worth of production capital to build a quality airplane and hold them to it, they've shown they have the ability to do so in the past.

thuuuomas 2y ago

If your safety systems fail, we pierce the corporate veil.

bluGill 2y ago

> I'll leave it to your imagination to figure out what the risk should be, but it should be something that a golden parachute shouldn't be able to resolve. I agree with that statement, but want so add: I believe that whatever you propose will have significant problems and is likely worse than the status quo in some major way. Sometimes I'll only be able to tell you what those problems are in hindsight. Sometimes those problems are fixable sometimes not. Don't let this dissuade you from thinking about the problem - it needs to be thought about. However do think about is in more than a shallow way, look at it from all viewpoints (including ones of people who disagree with) try to see what the downsides are and how to mitigate them. Good luck, if enough people do this maybe someone will come up with a good enough answer, (as opposed to perfect!) and you will understand the problem well enough to help debate why the downsides are worth it.

carapace 2y ago
Planes are falling out of the sky. I'm a fan of nuance but we're a little past that now.
- bluGill 2y ago
  Even with that, flying is still vastly safer than driving. We thus know there is a level of risk society is willing to accept.
  - carapace 2y ago
    There's no "even with that"!? Planes fly. If they don't fly people die. This is not an acceptable regression.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

> Great risk should come with great reward. In today's culture, I often hear C-suiters talking about how much "risk" they are taking, to justify their outrageous salaries and stock holdings, but I almost never see them pay much, in the way of penalties, except for the very smallest, most "raw" companies, where they have, literally, sunk their entire net worth into the endeavor. It seems that, once a company has reached a certain threshold, the only real "risk" that executives experience, is that they'll only get a 5% bonus, instead of 30%. So, only $5M, as opposed to $30M. AUTHORITEH: "Put out your hand!" GUILTEH: "OK" AUTHORITEH: <SLAP> "Bad Executive! Bad, bad, Executive! Don't let it happen again! See you at the party on Saturday?"

LargeWu 2y ago
Additionally, even when they fail spectacularly, they often get golden parachute payments in the 10's of millions of dollars.
cellis 2y ago
Boeing employs millions (mostly indirectly via downstream cottage industries) of people and I think is the leading net exporter by revenue of the US. Politicians don’t want to hurt them too badly because all those employees vote.
- lenerdenator 2y ago
  That's why you limit the liability of the company as a whole, but create great risk for the actual executives who decided that safety came second to the profit margin. Again, you can imagine what that would be, but when you compensation is in the tens of millions and there are hundreds dead, well... the risk has overcome the reward and the punishment should match. Boeing's problem is its management. If you tell the rank-and-file worker to use the company's billions of dollars worth of production capital to build a quality airplane and hold them to it, they've shown they have the ability to do so in the past.