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> A keen reader pointed out that I had miscounted the number of versions of Db2, IBM's relational database. > Although I had listed the versions of IBM's 40-ye

> A keen reader pointed out that I had miscounted the number of versions of Db2, IBM's relational database. > Although I had listed the versions of IBM's 40-year-old database running on Linux or Unix or Windows (LUW) and its System Z mainframe, I neglected to mention the version running on the mid-range server once known as AS/400, now – after several intermediary name changes – called iSeries or IBM i. Actually between this article and the previous article to which he refers - he doesn’t link to it but it is [0] - he’s still missing a DB2 variant, albeit arguably the least used, most obscure, and least supported (as in, still under support, but largely in maintenance mode) - DB2 Server for VSE and VM, [1] possibly better known under its original name of SQL/DS. It is actually IBM’s oldest official relational database product, it shipped first for VM/CMS, and then DB2 for MVS came out second. (There were earlier IBM relational databases that were research projects only, or provided to customers outside of IBM’s normal software support, but SQL/DS was the first to ship as a fully supported IBM software product.) Originally, DB2 was just the name for the MVS relational database. The VM/CMS relational database was SQL/DS (later ported to DOS/VSE as well), and the OS/2 relational database was OS/2 Extended Edition Database Manager. And then IBM decided to adopt “DB2” as an overarching brand for all three, as well as for the relational database layer of the AS/400’s OS/400 operating system (DB2/400, now DB2 for IBM i). But they are actually four different code bases - the OS/2 database evolved into the current Linux/Unix/Windows DB2 - with incompatible feature sets, and independent (not in synch with each other) version numbering [0] https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/27/ibm_ai_optimization_db2/ https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/27/ibm_ai_optimization_d... [1] https://www.ibm.com/mysupport/s/topic/0TO0z0000006v3rGAA/db2-server-for-vse-and-vm?language=en_US https://www.ibm.com/mysupport/s/topic/0TO0z0000006v3rGAA/db2...

formerly_proven 2y ago
> least supported (as in, still under support, but largely in maintenance mode) Are there IBM (sans Red Hat) products that do not fall under this umbrella? In my somewhat limited experience, your description fits all of them.
- skissane 2y ago
  It is a matter of degree. DB2 for LUW and DB2 for z/OS have the biggest install base, so IBM invests the most in them, and that’s where you get the most new features. Here’s new features in DB2 LUW 11.5.9 (November last year) - https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/db2/11.5?topic=new-1159 https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/db2/11.5?topic=new-1159 - maybe nothing earth shattering but they are still adding stuff. And IBM is getting ready to release the next major version (12) DB2 for z/OS version 13 came out in May 2022, here is new features - https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/db2-for-zos/13?topic=13-overview-whats-new-in-db2 https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/db2-for-zos/13?topic=13-overview... - IBM makes a big deal about the machine learning integration (“AI”), I have no idea whether that’s a genuinely useful feature or a gimmick But, compared to LUW and z/OS, DB2 for IBM i gets significantly less investment. And DB2 for VSE and VM is getting close to moribund.
- boilerupnc 2y ago
  Amazon RDS for Db2 - "Amazon Relational Database Service (Amazon RDS) for Db2 makes it easy to set up, operate, and scale Db2 deployments in the cloud" was announced in Nov. 2023 [0] [0]: https://aws.amazon.com/rds/db2/ https://aws.amazon.com/rds/db2/
pmcjones 2y ago
SQL/DS was actually a slightly reworked System R, the research system that invented SQL. And the original DB2 relational layer was reworked from System R. See: https://www.mcjones.org/System_R/SQL_Reunion_95/index.html https://www.mcjones.org/System_R/SQL_Reunion_95/index.html
DougN7 2y ago
Man I wish I could get a job at IBM naming things - what a sweet gig that would be. “Need a name for an operating system? OS/1! Oh, there’s already one of those? OS/2! Database? DB/1! Oh… OK then, DB/2!”
- skissane 2y ago
  > Need a name for an operating system? OS/1! Oh, there’s already one of those? OS/2! The OS/1 was actually PC-DOS / MS-DOS. OS/2 began life as IBM and Microsoft's shared desire to make DOS multitasking. The rarely adopted multitasking version of MS-DOS 4.0 (sometimes called "European MS-DOS 4.0", since it was mainly used in Europe) represents an early phase of it. (As distinct from mainstream DOS 4.0, which was single-tasking – and, unlike most versions of DOS, was actually developed by IBM, not Microsoft – single-tasking MS-DOS 4.x is Microsoft's fixes/enhancements on top of IBM's PC-DOS 4.x codebase.) It went through various internal names with IBM and Microsoft, including "Advanced DOS" and "CP/DOS" (Control Program for DOS–a name inspired by IBM's use of "Control Program" for various mainframe and minicomputer operating systems, and possibly also by CP/M), before they eventually settled on "OS/2" > Database? DB/1! Oh… OK then, DB/2! Just like OS/2, there never actually was an IBM database product called DB1 or DB/1. But, the "DB1" was meant to be IBM's IMS hierarchical database. The idea being conveyed is that DB2 as a relational database is a successor to "DB1" the hierarchical database. In the wider industry, network model databases (as in CODASYL) represented an intermediate phase in-between hierarchical databases such as IMS and relational databases such as DB2 and Oracle – but IBM themselves never really got in to network model databases, although network model databases from other vendors were popular on IBM mainframes (particular IDMS–now from Broadcom, formerly CA, and before that Cullinet, who were originally called Cullinane)
  - DougN7 2y ago
    I don’t doubt any of what you say. I have this opinions because I worked at IBM MANY years ago and saw a product list and it was almost all two or three letters / number. AND there was a _committee_ created with coming up with these oh so unique names! PS/1 PS/2 AS/400 System/3 System/36 System/360 I love it :)

formerly_proven 2y ago

> least supported (as in, still under support, but largely in maintenance mode) Are there IBM (sans Red Hat) products that do not fall under this umbrella? In my somewhat limited experience, your description fits all of them.

skissane 2y ago
It is a matter of degree. DB2 for LUW and DB2 for z/OS have the biggest install base, so IBM invests the most in them, and that’s where you get the most new features. Here’s new features in DB2 LUW 11.5.9 (November last year) - https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/db2/11.5?topic=new-1159 https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/db2/11.5?topic=new-1159 - maybe nothing earth shattering but they are still adding stuff. And IBM is getting ready to release the next major version (12) DB2 for z/OS version 13 came out in May 2022, here is new features - https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/db2-for-zos/13?topic=13-overview-whats-new-in-db2 https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/db2-for-zos/13?topic=13-overview... - IBM makes a big deal about the machine learning integration (“AI”), I have no idea whether that’s a genuinely useful feature or a gimmick But, compared to LUW and z/OS, DB2 for IBM i gets significantly less investment. And DB2 for VSE and VM is getting close to moribund.
boilerupnc 2y ago
Amazon RDS for Db2 - "Amazon Relational Database Service (Amazon RDS) for Db2 makes it easy to set up, operate, and scale Db2 deployments in the cloud" was announced in Nov. 2023 [0] [0]: https://aws.amazon.com/rds/db2/ https://aws.amazon.com/rds/db2/

pmcjones 2y ago

SQL/DS was actually a slightly reworked System R, the research system that invented SQL. And the original DB2 relational layer was reworked from System R. See: https://www.mcjones.org/System_R/SQL_Reunion_95/index.html https://www.mcjones.org/System_R/SQL_Reunion_95/index.html

DougN7 2y ago

Man I wish I could get a job at IBM naming things - what a sweet gig that would be. “Need a name for an operating system? OS/1! Oh, there’s already one of those? OS/2! Database? DB/1! Oh… OK then, DB/2!”

skissane 2y ago
> Need a name for an operating system? OS/1! Oh, there’s already one of those? OS/2! The OS/1 was actually PC-DOS / MS-DOS. OS/2 began life as IBM and Microsoft's shared desire to make DOS multitasking. The rarely adopted multitasking version of MS-DOS 4.0 (sometimes called "European MS-DOS 4.0", since it was mainly used in Europe) represents an early phase of it. (As distinct from mainstream DOS 4.0, which was single-tasking – and, unlike most versions of DOS, was actually developed by IBM, not Microsoft – single-tasking MS-DOS 4.x is Microsoft's fixes/enhancements on top of IBM's PC-DOS 4.x codebase.) It went through various internal names with IBM and Microsoft, including "Advanced DOS" and "CP/DOS" (Control Program for DOS–a name inspired by IBM's use of "Control Program" for various mainframe and minicomputer operating systems, and possibly also by CP/M), before they eventually settled on "OS/2" > Database? DB/1! Oh… OK then, DB/2! Just like OS/2, there never actually was an IBM database product called DB1 or DB/1. But, the "DB1" was meant to be IBM's IMS hierarchical database. The idea being conveyed is that DB2 as a relational database is a successor to "DB1" the hierarchical database. In the wider industry, network model databases (as in CODASYL) represented an intermediate phase in-between hierarchical databases such as IMS and relational databases such as DB2 and Oracle – but IBM themselves never really got in to network model databases, although network model databases from other vendors were popular on IBM mainframes (particular IDMS–now from Broadcom, formerly CA, and before that Cullinet, who were originally called Cullinane)
- DougN7 2y ago
  I don’t doubt any of what you say. I have this opinions because I worked at IBM MANY years ago and saw a product list and it was almost all two or three letters / number. AND there was a _committee_ created with coming up with these oh so unique names! PS/1 PS/2 AS/400 System/3 System/36 System/360 I love it :)