3 ms·

I agree TBP's characters aren't great. It makes up for that by the bold concepts. I don't think advanced civs not getting involved is a counterexample to the c

by dash2 2y ago

I agree TBP's characters aren't great. It makes up for that by the bold concepts. I don't think advanced civs not getting involved is a counterexample to the colonialist template. "Get involved or not" was a standard dilemma that e.g. the British Empire, or indeed the US, faced – think of the US after the 1990 Gulf War, for example, debating whether to enter Iraq and topple Saddam Hussein. Empires don't always choose to interfere, and non-interference does not mean they exert no effect on their neighbours. One way to check whether Banks' characters are bland: look through these posts. There's a bunch of fans posting here! Lots of them talking about their favourite books. Not one mention of a favourite character. Now, imagine talking about LOTR without Frodo and Sam, or The Left Hand Of Darkness without its hero.

mpalmer 2y ago
You grant Liu his bold concepts but not Banks? As someone else pointed out, TBP would fit inside the greater Culture universe but not the other way around. > I don't think advanced civs not getting involved is a counterexample to the colonialist template. Your criticism was of a supposed simplistic pattern of plotting across the books, not that the Culture's behavior is generally colonialist. The "template" I understood you to be talking about is one of plot. > One way to check whether Banks' characters are bland: look through these posts. Yeah I'm not sure about that. What sci-fi novels claim fans with this enthusiasm about the characters? Especially non-serialized space operas? Even if the characters aren't all-time greats, the personality he writes into even the bit players is commendable. The drone escaping the Peace Makes Plenty at the beginning of Excession comes to mind.
arkaic 2y ago
In the Culture novels, the characters that stand out most to me were his Minds rather than any of the pan-human non-AI. What's most intriguing to me, something I rarely ever see in science fiction is how utterly "human" and warm his AI creations always were. Just read Look to Windward, Masaq Hub in particular, for the ultimate example.

by dash2 2y ago

mpalmer 2y ago

You grant Liu his bold concepts but not Banks? As someone else pointed out, TBP would fit inside the greater Culture universe but not the other way around. > I don't think advanced civs not getting involved is a counterexample to the colonialist template. Your criticism was of a supposed simplistic pattern of plotting across the books, not that the Culture's behavior is generally colonialist. The "template" I understood you to be talking about is one of plot. > One way to check whether Banks' characters are bland: look through these posts. Yeah I'm not sure about that. What sci-fi novels claim fans with this enthusiasm about the characters? Especially non-serialized space operas? Even if the characters aren't all-time greats, the personality he writes into even the bit players is commendable. The drone escaping the Peace Makes Plenty at the beginning of Excession comes to mind.

arkaic 2y ago

In the Culture novels, the characters that stand out most to me were his Minds rather than any of the pan-human non-AI. What's most intriguing to me, something I rarely ever see in science fiction is how utterly "human" and warm his AI creations always were. Just read Look to Windward, Masaq Hub in particular, for the ultimate example.