2 ms·

Using "America" to mean the US annoys me too, but blame the Americans for that one. There are definitely some unique food cultures within the US (cajun/creole

by lmm 2y ago

Using "America" to mean the US annoys me too, but blame the Americans for that one. There are definitely some unique food cultures within the US (cajun/creole comes immediately to mind, as does Chicago pizza), but are there really American food cultures - flavours or preparations that are eaten both throughout the US and not elsewhere? All of the obvious candidates like hamburgers are popular in many countries and cultures; whenever I've gone to an "American restaurant" (as distinct from a "New York deli" or a "New Orleans grill" or what have you) they've seemed to be serving much the same stuff as a generic restaurant.

lolinder 2y ago
The requirement that the food be eaten conventionally throughout the country is a really weird definition of what counts as "American food" that would to my first- and secondhand knowledge at the very least exclude Mexican and Italian cuisine from being distinct. Neither one really exists as a coherent cuisine in the way you seem to imagine, and if you talk to a native of those countries they'll very quickly tell you that the foods you think of as "Mexican" or "Italian" are actually from specific regions of those countries. Your second requirement—that it be not eaten elsewhere—would likewise exclude every major exported food culture. Do the Italians no longer get to claim spaghetti because an American mom makes it as a quick dish at home for her kids?
- lmm 2y ago
  > would to my first- and secondhand knowledge at the very least exclude Mexican and Italian cuisine from being distinct. Neither one really exists as a coherent cuisine in the way you seem to imagine, and if you talk to a native of those countries they'll very quickly tell you that the foods you think of as "Mexican" or "Italian" are actually from specific regions of those countries. I don't know Mexico well enough to comment, but yeah there absolutely isn't a unified "Italian" culture (perhaps there is the beginnings of one) and it's a mistake to think of one (not just in food but in other matters as well). Just as there is no "Chinese" food, there are several distinct Chinese food cultures. > Your second requirement—that it be not eaten elsewhere—would likewise exclude every major exported food culture. Do the Italians no longer get to claim spaghetti because an American mom makes it as a quick dish at home for her kids? At some point it just becomes generic food yeah, just like trademarks. I'm sure for the first people to bake bread it was a unique cultural food, but it would be madness to call that Mesopotamian food now, it's just food.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    I guess you at least have a consistent definition you're working from! My initial pattern matching on your first sentence told me (apparently mistakenly) that this was another anti-US rant that was holding the US to a different standard than the rest of the world.
tptacek 2y ago
There are universal, non-regional American dishes, eaten consistently everywhere in the country. Caesar salad, apple pie, fried chicken, chili (though: regional variations), beef stew, a BLT. And then of course there's Americanized ethnic food: pizza, burritos, General Tso's chicken. That's before you dip your toe into fast food.
- lmm 2y ago
  > There are universal, non-regional American dishes, eaten consistently everywhere in the country. Caesar salad, apple pie, fried chicken, chili (though: regional variations), beef stew, a BLT. Right, but those are mostly global (or at least broadly western) - I'm interested in the question of whether there's an American food culture. BLT is an interesting thought though, I think America does have a distinct "bacon" culture involving different, more heavily cured meat than you find in Europe.
  - wheels 2y ago
    Those are only universal because they were so successful. The things that are most universal in the US are also the ones that have been the most exported. Hamburgers and fried chicken weren't common in Europe before the US was involved in European wars and reconstruction. Honestly, even finding high-quality hamburgers in Europe outside of the Anglophone countries is something that happened in the last 10-15 years. There are a lot of things like that -- you find chili in Europe, but you don't ever find good chili. Same with, say, pies. BBQ even less. And zero gumbo. Or fried okra. And so on. Ooh, here's a fun one! Craft beer. It's pretty interesting watching American beer styles migrate over to Europe. (I've spent about equal parts of my life in the US and Europe, and am a pretty avid cook.)
    - teractiveodular 2y ago
      Well, you could make the case that the craft beer movement in the US came from European beers: India pale ale is a British invention after all. The "original" American beers (Budweiser & co) haven't made much of a dent on the world.

by lmm 2y ago

lolinder 2y ago

The requirement that the food be eaten conventionally throughout the country is a really weird definition of what counts as "American food" that would to my first- and secondhand knowledge at the very least exclude Mexican and Italian cuisine from being distinct. Neither one really exists as a coherent cuisine in the way you seem to imagine, and if you talk to a native of those countries they'll very quickly tell you that the foods you think of as "Mexican" or "Italian" are actually from specific regions of those countries. Your second requirement—that it be not eaten elsewhere—would likewise exclude every major exported food culture. Do the Italians no longer get to claim spaghetti because an American mom makes it as a quick dish at home for her kids?

lmm 2y ago
> would to my first- and secondhand knowledge at the very least exclude Mexican and Italian cuisine from being distinct. Neither one really exists as a coherent cuisine in the way you seem to imagine, and if you talk to a native of those countries they'll very quickly tell you that the foods you think of as "Mexican" or "Italian" are actually from specific regions of those countries. I don't know Mexico well enough to comment, but yeah there absolutely isn't a unified "Italian" culture (perhaps there is the beginnings of one) and it's a mistake to think of one (not just in food but in other matters as well). Just as there is no "Chinese" food, there are several distinct Chinese food cultures. > Your second requirement—that it be not eaten elsewhere—would likewise exclude every major exported food culture. Do the Italians no longer get to claim spaghetti because an American mom makes it as a quick dish at home for her kids? At some point it just becomes generic food yeah, just like trademarks. I'm sure for the first people to bake bread it was a unique cultural food, but it would be madness to call that Mesopotamian food now, it's just food.
- lolinder 2y ago
  I guess you at least have a consistent definition you're working from! My initial pattern matching on your first sentence told me (apparently mistakenly) that this was another anti-US rant that was holding the US to a different standard than the rest of the world.

tptacek 2y ago

There are universal, non-regional American dishes, eaten consistently everywhere in the country. Caesar salad, apple pie, fried chicken, chili (though: regional variations), beef stew, a BLT. And then of course there's Americanized ethnic food: pizza, burritos, General Tso's chicken. That's before you dip your toe into fast food.

lmm 2y ago
> There are universal, non-regional American dishes, eaten consistently everywhere in the country. Caesar salad, apple pie, fried chicken, chili (though: regional variations), beef stew, a BLT. Right, but those are mostly global (or at least broadly western) - I'm interested in the question of whether there's an American food culture. BLT is an interesting thought though, I think America does have a distinct "bacon" culture involving different, more heavily cured meat than you find in Europe.
- wheels 2y ago
  Those are only universal because they were so successful. The things that are most universal in the US are also the ones that have been the most exported. Hamburgers and fried chicken weren't common in Europe before the US was involved in European wars and reconstruction. Honestly, even finding high-quality hamburgers in Europe outside of the Anglophone countries is something that happened in the last 10-15 years. There are a lot of things like that -- you find chili in Europe, but you don't ever find good chili. Same with, say, pies. BBQ even less. And zero gumbo. Or fried okra. And so on. Ooh, here's a fun one! Craft beer. It's pretty interesting watching American beer styles migrate over to Europe. (I've spent about equal parts of my life in the US and Europe, and am a pretty avid cook.)
  - teractiveodular 2y ago
    Well, you could make the case that the craft beer movement in the US came from European beers: India pale ale is a British invention after all. The "original" American beers (Budweiser & co) haven't made much of a dent on the world.