5 ms·

> it proved the correct decision through virtue of the fact that the story continued (and they weren't all killed off in episode one). In the show’s fictional

by czl 2y ago

> it proved the correct decision through virtue of the fact that the story continued (and they weren't all killed off in episode one). In the show’s fictional plot, the decision seems correct because the story continued and the characters survived. However, we shouldn't judge decisions in real life by how they are portrayed in fiction. In modern fiction, decisions are often shaped to please audiences, not to reflect real-world correctness. Thus, it may not be wise to judge these fictional decisions by the same standards we use in real life.

schmidtleonard 2y ago
Exactly. This is a pet peeve of mine, with the most common incarnation being: no, the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park do not escape because the writers proved that chaos theory makes a dinosaur zoo mathematically impossible, they escape because otherwise you and I would not pay to see the movie.
- andoando 2y ago
  Reminds me of all the high school prompts like "What does the Lord of the Flies teach us about human nature". Nothing, its a complete work of fiction
  - walterbell 2y ago
    > What does the Lord of the Flies teach us about human nature It teaches us about the human propensity for propaganda.
  - jowea 2y ago
    I think that can be understood as "What does the Lord of the Flies opines about human nature"
    - ClumsyPilot 2y ago
      Unfortunately, the School education system has decided that only a certain interpretation is correct.and sometimes that is not even interpretation of the books author
      - trod123 2y ago
        Well, in fairness the majority of that system has been taken over by communism. Quite a lot of the methods and techniques they use are based in Marx or Mao, though the teachers aren't taught the origins of the tools they use, which have been obscured. For some background, Lifton, Meerloo, New Discourses (youtube), inform.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    Every Hollywood production about a fictional President of the US has liberal policies working.
    - smcin 2y ago
      Dr Strangelove?
    - asdff 2y ago
      To be fair, hollywood productions hardly ever touch the whitehouse or policies playing out and showing effects, to the point where it almost seems like the lack of coverage is perhaps even intentional imho. I did a very quick internet search on "movies about the white house" just because I was drawing such a blank and I only get White House Down, Olympus has fallen, and Independence day as the main search results.
      - WalterBright 2y ago
        See "The West Wing", for example. "Designated Survivor", for another.
      - smcin 2y ago
        'Syriana' was superb. Didn't explicitly depict a WH or US President, but it did feature Congressional hearings.
- saghm 2y ago
  I remember after seeing Jurassic World in theaters a friend (who hadn't seen it yet) asked me if it was good, and I said something like "even though you know everything is going to go wrong, it's still entertaining seeing all of the set up before it happens", and they were upset at me for "spoiling" that the dinosaurs eventually break loose. I was taken aback because I thought it was pretty well understood that seeing dinosaurs wreck a bunch of stuff was basically the whole point of the franchise, and the movie would be boring otherwise. In a way, I'm almost envious of the ability to experience a story without being distracted the "meta" knowledge that what happens at every step is a deliberate choice by the writer. I'd probably be a lot more into movies if I could somehow believe that events in them unfolded organically like in reality rather than sometimes being forced for plot convenience.
  - trod123 2y ago
    Well, maybe you mis-communicated and spoiled the dinosaur thing, since there's an inconsistency, because that doesn't make sense with the paraphrase you provided, seems like there is something missing. That said, the development of meta knowledge is a sign of maturity. It means you've watched or read enough of the same story to see the repeating pattern and by extension to see the holes that poor quality storytelling leaves. It is magic for the reader when a story is crafted that can fully suspend disbelief especially when it is masterfully done. Some mediums and structures are really difficult to do this, like with the book The Reality Dysfunction (1400 pages?). There are something like 12 concurrent threads that jump around, its not that entertaining until you alter your reading habits and decide to skim or skip the threads of characters that don't interest you (saving them for a second read through if interest remains as a whole). Needless to say, there are very few examples today of higher level of craft in current media because the corners have been cut beyond the point where they can remain in the finished product. The market has shrunk over time with the suppression of wages. You have to go back to much older production to really see this. If you haven't already watched it, check out the 1934 Count of Monte Cristo with Robert Donat, and a few of his other films (The 39 Steps) as a starter. Depending on your taste for more abstract film you might enjoy Ink with Christopher Soren Kelly, since it has many elements that are bit of a throwback to earlier cinema (if you haven't already seen it). Overall, all it just means you need to focus on higher quality stories that surprise you. The meta knowledge helps you discern the trash from the gold. There is far more trash today because most production companies have dual purposes. Making a profit, and seeking to distort reflected appraisal, pavlovian association of unrelated stimulus (associative priming), or destructively interfere with self concept of the viewer (without their knowledge), for thought reform and control; John Meerloo and Robert Lifton have background in that subject matter if you are interested in how actual brainwashing works in practice (its not absurd like they show in the movies, but it is often quite evil and dark not light reading). You might enjoy reading The Hero of a Thousand Faces. It is important to develop a cultured palette.
- trod123 2y ago
  Well, you missed out on a lot. Stories should provoke flexible thinking and perspective shifts in an entertaining way, they should not make you unhappy. If you get hung up on surface level things like that assuming the worst, you close your eyes to higher levels of perspective and thinking. The series is largely about a single theme which is primarily about nature vs. man, and man's hubris and fallibility.
trod123 2y ago
Yes, that does goes without saying for unvetted sources, what you say is just a less formalized way of saying, follow Descartes Rules of Method. That said, the handling of the tech received a seal of approval from me, and I've quite a bit of professional background in IT System's Engineering, and a periphery of Cyber. I mean what they do really is not that much of a leap, and would improve existing security by orders of magnitude by eliminating swatches of attack surface that the worst of the worst malware out there uses today. Punch cards (upgraded) -> Optical printouts that can be physically changed to load firmware and and the functional software from a physically modifiable medium. (A known working, knokwn safe state at the lowest level). No persistent internal state at the hardware/firmware controller levels (for bad actors to abuse with an APT such as some of the DMA shennanigans, hooking, and bus tricks). Non-networked except between critical fortified systems (to limit spread). Sure you take some performance hits, but its resilient with few single points of failure (such as the physical medium).

by czl 2y ago

schmidtleonard 2y ago

Exactly. This is a pet peeve of mine, with the most common incarnation being: no, the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park do not escape because the writers proved that chaos theory makes a dinosaur zoo mathematically impossible, they escape because otherwise you and I would not pay to see the movie.

andoando 2y ago
Reminds me of all the high school prompts like "What does the Lord of the Flies teach us about human nature". Nothing, its a complete work of fiction
- walterbell 2y ago
  > What does the Lord of the Flies teach us about human nature It teaches us about the human propensity for propaganda.
- jowea 2y ago
  I think that can be understood as "What does the Lord of the Flies opines about human nature"
  - ClumsyPilot 2y ago
    Unfortunately, the School education system has decided that only a certain interpretation is correct.and sometimes that is not even interpretation of the books author
    - trod123 2y ago
      Well, in fairness the majority of that system has been taken over by communism. Quite a lot of the methods and techniques they use are based in Marx or Mao, though the teachers aren't taught the origins of the tools they use, which have been obscured. For some background, Lifton, Meerloo, New Discourses (youtube), inform.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  Every Hollywood production about a fictional President of the US has liberal policies working.
  - smcin 2y ago
    Dr Strangelove?
  - asdff 2y ago
    To be fair, hollywood productions hardly ever touch the whitehouse or policies playing out and showing effects, to the point where it almost seems like the lack of coverage is perhaps even intentional imho. I did a very quick internet search on "movies about the white house" just because I was drawing such a blank and I only get White House Down, Olympus has fallen, and Independence day as the main search results.
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      See "The West Wing", for example. "Designated Survivor", for another.
    - smcin 2y ago
      'Syriana' was superb. Didn't explicitly depict a WH or US President, but it did feature Congressional hearings.
saghm 2y ago
I remember after seeing Jurassic World in theaters a friend (who hadn't seen it yet) asked me if it was good, and I said something like "even though you know everything is going to go wrong, it's still entertaining seeing all of the set up before it happens", and they were upset at me for "spoiling" that the dinosaurs eventually break loose. I was taken aback because I thought it was pretty well understood that seeing dinosaurs wreck a bunch of stuff was basically the whole point of the franchise, and the movie would be boring otherwise. In a way, I'm almost envious of the ability to experience a story without being distracted the "meta" knowledge that what happens at every step is a deliberate choice by the writer. I'd probably be a lot more into movies if I could somehow believe that events in them unfolded organically like in reality rather than sometimes being forced for plot convenience.
- trod123 2y ago
  Well, maybe you mis-communicated and spoiled the dinosaur thing, since there's an inconsistency, because that doesn't make sense with the paraphrase you provided, seems like there is something missing. That said, the development of meta knowledge is a sign of maturity. It means you've watched or read enough of the same story to see the repeating pattern and by extension to see the holes that poor quality storytelling leaves. It is magic for the reader when a story is crafted that can fully suspend disbelief especially when it is masterfully done. Some mediums and structures are really difficult to do this, like with the book The Reality Dysfunction (1400 pages?). There are something like 12 concurrent threads that jump around, its not that entertaining until you alter your reading habits and decide to skim or skip the threads of characters that don't interest you (saving them for a second read through if interest remains as a whole). Needless to say, there are very few examples today of higher level of craft in current media because the corners have been cut beyond the point where they can remain in the finished product. The market has shrunk over time with the suppression of wages. You have to go back to much older production to really see this. If you haven't already watched it, check out the 1934 Count of Monte Cristo with Robert Donat, and a few of his other films (The 39 Steps) as a starter. Depending on your taste for more abstract film you might enjoy Ink with Christopher Soren Kelly, since it has many elements that are bit of a throwback to earlier cinema (if you haven't already seen it). Overall, all it just means you need to focus on higher quality stories that surprise you. The meta knowledge helps you discern the trash from the gold. There is far more trash today because most production companies have dual purposes. Making a profit, and seeking to distort reflected appraisal, pavlovian association of unrelated stimulus (associative priming), or destructively interfere with self concept of the viewer (without their knowledge), for thought reform and control; John Meerloo and Robert Lifton have background in that subject matter if you are interested in how actual brainwashing works in practice (its not absurd like they show in the movies, but it is often quite evil and dark not light reading). You might enjoy reading The Hero of a Thousand Faces. It is important to develop a cultured palette.
trod123 2y ago
Well, you missed out on a lot. Stories should provoke flexible thinking and perspective shifts in an entertaining way, they should not make you unhappy. If you get hung up on surface level things like that assuming the worst, you close your eyes to higher levels of perspective and thinking. The series is largely about a single theme which is primarily about nature vs. man, and man's hubris and fallibility.

trod123 2y ago

Yes, that does goes without saying for unvetted sources, what you say is just a less formalized way of saying, follow Descartes Rules of Method. That said, the handling of the tech received a seal of approval from me, and I've quite a bit of professional background in IT System's Engineering, and a periphery of Cyber. I mean what they do really is not that much of a leap, and would improve existing security by orders of magnitude by eliminating swatches of attack surface that the worst of the worst malware out there uses today. Punch cards (upgraded) -> Optical printouts that can be physically changed to load firmware and and the functional software from a physically modifiable medium. (A known working, knokwn safe state at the lowest level). No persistent internal state at the hardware/firmware controller levels (for bad actors to abuse with an APT such as some of the DMA shennanigans, hooking, and bus tricks). Non-networked except between critical fortified systems (to limit spread). Sure you take some performance hits, but its resilient with few single points of failure (such as the physical medium).