4 ms·

I found the second book in the series, The Player of Games, much more explanatory about what the Culture is than the first book, Consider Phelbas. I enjoyed Con

I found the second book in the series, The Player of Games, much more explanatory about what the Culture is than the first book, Consider Phelbas. I enjoyed Consider Phelbas much more upon re-reading after I did an initial read through of the rest of the series than I did having that be the first book I read from him.

stavros 2y ago
Consider Phlebas was my first book too, I liked it enough to read another, but I neither remember much from it nor loved it. I really liked Player of Games, and I'd like to read a few more books in the series. I also read the Wasp Factory, and while his writing is brilliant, I wasn't too captivated by the story itself.
- arethuza 2y ago
  Some paperback editions of The Wasp Factory had quotes from reviews included at the start alternating between very positive and very negative reviews. His non-Culture non-SF works as Iain Banks deserve more attention I think - mind you perhaps that because I frequently travel across the Forth Bridge (The Bridge) and, as I write this, I can see Inchmickery out of the window (Complicity). However, my favourite has to be Espedair Street - which is simply sublime.
  - Bluestein 2y ago
    > between very positive and very negative reviews. Funny that they would put negative reviews on the paperback itself. How honest ...
    - arethuza 2y ago
      The Irish Time described it as "a work of unparalleled depravity". - though I've forgotten if that is one of the positive or negative reviews ;-)
      - Bluestein 2y ago
        > unparalleled depravity (I mean, I am sure that's a plus for *somebody* :) PS. I find it funny that the Irish Times would find "post scarcity" depraved :)
        arethuza 2y ago
        Apologies, should have been clearer there - the Wasp Factory is not a Culture novel and isn't even SF - it's about a rather troubled teenager and his unusual circle of family and friends.
        swdunlop 2y ago
        When Iain (M.) Banks published science fiction (or essays about science fiction), he used “Iain M. Banks.” Other works he used “Iain Banks.” You can sometimes separate the fans and the topic by how they refer to him.
- navbaker 2y ago
  Matter and The Hydrogen Sonata are very good, more action-packed stories that I thoroughly enjoyed. Surface Detail is also extremely good, but has some pretty dark setting and themes involving virtual afterlifes. If you’re looking for something different after reading one or two of those, definitely check out Excession. It follows a bunch of the different Culture minds embedded in the various size ships as they investigate strange interstellar goings-on and we get to see the wide range of personalities the ships develop during their existence.
  - stavros 2y ago
    Ah, Excession sounds interesting, thank you. I'll read that one next.
    - gpderetta 2y ago
      From Wikipedia, quoting the book itself: "" This novel is about how the Culture deals with an Outside Context Problem (OCP), the kind of problem "most civilizations would encounter just once, and which they tended to encounter rather in the same way a sentence encountered a full stop." ""
bouvin 2y ago
I think there is a wide consensus that Consider Phlebas, though first, is not the ideal starting point for Banks' Culture series. The plot is meandering, and compared to later books, it is clear that Banks had not yet quite found the form that would be so impressive later on. I usually recommend The Player of Games, or alternatively, depending on the reader, Use of Weapons as starting points. It is however a good idea, having read other Culture books, to read Consider Phlebas before beginning Look to Windward, as there is a connection between the two.
- number6 2y ago
  Ah ... Never found into Culture. I started with Consider Phlebas. So Player of Games or Use of Weapons?
  - arethuza 2y ago
    I wouldn't recommend starting with Use of Weapons - it is probably the best Culture novel but it took me a few readings to really appreciate it. Edit: As far as I recall, Banks originally created the Culture as a background for the protagonist of UoW - the ultimate warrior: "The method was that taking and bending of materials and people to one purpose, the outlook that everything could be used in the fight; that nothing could be excluded, that everything was a weapon, and the ability to handle those weapons, to find them and choose which one to aim and fire; that talent, that ability, that use of weapons."
  - WJW 2y ago
    Player of Games was the first Culture novel I read and I enjoyed it a lot. I still sometimes go back and reread it and have found new perspectives each time. Would definitely recommend.
  - AlexCoventry 2y ago
    I would recommend starting with the novella "The State of the Art", FWIW. It's in an anthology of the same name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_State_of_the_Art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_State_of_the_Art

stavros 2y ago

Consider Phlebas was my first book too, I liked it enough to read another, but I neither remember much from it nor loved it. I really liked Player of Games, and I'd like to read a few more books in the series. I also read the Wasp Factory, and while his writing is brilliant, I wasn't too captivated by the story itself.

arethuza 2y ago
Some paperback editions of The Wasp Factory had quotes from reviews included at the start alternating between very positive and very negative reviews. His non-Culture non-SF works as Iain Banks deserve more attention I think - mind you perhaps that because I frequently travel across the Forth Bridge (The Bridge) and, as I write this, I can see Inchmickery out of the window (Complicity). However, my favourite has to be Espedair Street - which is simply sublime.
- Bluestein 2y ago
  > between very positive and very negative reviews. Funny that they would put negative reviews on the paperback itself. How honest ...
  - arethuza 2y ago
    The Irish Time described it as "a work of unparalleled depravity". - though I've forgotten if that is one of the positive or negative reviews ;-)
    - Bluestein 2y ago
      > unparalleled depravity (I mean, I am sure that's a plus for *somebody* :) PS. I find it funny that the Irish Times would find "post scarcity" depraved :)
      - arethuza 2y ago
        Apologies, should have been clearer there - the Wasp Factory is not a Culture novel and isn't even SF - it's about a rather troubled teenager and his unusual circle of family and friends.
        swdunlop 2y ago
        When Iain (M.) Banks published science fiction (or essays about science fiction), he used “Iain M. Banks.” Other works he used “Iain Banks.” You can sometimes separate the fans and the topic by how they refer to him.
navbaker 2y ago
Matter and The Hydrogen Sonata are very good, more action-packed stories that I thoroughly enjoyed. Surface Detail is also extremely good, but has some pretty dark setting and themes involving virtual afterlifes. If you’re looking for something different after reading one or two of those, definitely check out Excession. It follows a bunch of the different Culture minds embedded in the various size ships as they investigate strange interstellar goings-on and we get to see the wide range of personalities the ships develop during their existence.
- stavros 2y ago
  Ah, Excession sounds interesting, thank you. I'll read that one next.
  - gpderetta 2y ago
    From Wikipedia, quoting the book itself: "" This novel is about how the Culture deals with an Outside Context Problem (OCP), the kind of problem "most civilizations would encounter just once, and which they tended to encounter rather in the same way a sentence encountered a full stop." ""

bouvin 2y ago

I think there is a wide consensus that Consider Phlebas, though first, is not the ideal starting point for Banks' Culture series. The plot is meandering, and compared to later books, it is clear that Banks had not yet quite found the form that would be so impressive later on. I usually recommend The Player of Games, or alternatively, depending on the reader, Use of Weapons as starting points. It is however a good idea, having read other Culture books, to read Consider Phlebas before beginning Look to Windward, as there is a connection between the two.

number6 2y ago
Ah ... Never found into Culture. I started with Consider Phlebas. So Player of Games or Use of Weapons?
- arethuza 2y ago
  I wouldn't recommend starting with Use of Weapons - it is probably the best Culture novel but it took me a few readings to really appreciate it. Edit: As far as I recall, Banks originally created the Culture as a background for the protagonist of UoW - the ultimate warrior: "The method was that taking and bending of materials and people to one purpose, the outlook that everything could be used in the fight; that nothing could be excluded, that everything was a weapon, and the ability to handle those weapons, to find them and choose which one to aim and fire; that talent, that ability, that use of weapons."
- WJW 2y ago
  Player of Games was the first Culture novel I read and I enjoyed it a lot. I still sometimes go back and reread it and have found new perspectives each time. Would definitely recommend.
- AlexCoventry 2y ago
  I would recommend starting with the novella "The State of the Art", FWIW. It's in an anthology of the same name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_State_of_the_Art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_State_of_the_Art