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> One thing I don't understand: In over two decades of ISS operation, there apparently was never time to do a zero-g pregnancy experiment on mice or other small

> One thing I don't understand: In over two decades of ISS operation, there apparently was never time to do a zero-g pregnancy experiment on mice or other small mammals. Coincidentally, I was looking for research into zero-g pregnancy myself a few days ago and was surprised just as you are. I did, however, find https://www.audubon.org/news/the-amazing-story-cold-war-space-egg-race https://www.audubon.org/news/the-amazing-story-cold-war-spac.... The Soviets did some good research on this subject and were able to successfully hatch birds at least.

cubefox 2y ago
Interesting. Here is more detail on how those Soviet quail experiments went: https://finchwench.wordpress.com/2011/09/06/cosmoquails/ https://finchwench.wordpress.com/2011/09/06/cosmoquails/ Unfortunately, the chicks often came out deformed and many died early. Though birds are not closely related to us (our last common ancestor lived more than 300 million years ago), so I really would like to see ISS experiments on whether mice fare any better, or perhaps even worse. Overall, I'm pessimistic about colonizing Mars. In the interview mentioned before, Kelly and Zach Weinersmith also mention other problems, like the necessity to live underground in caves, due to radiation. Building an underground city on Earth would be vastly easier than on Mars, yet nothing like it has ever been tried. I think the most likely thing that will happen is this: In about 20 years, NASA will use Starship (a SpaceX rocket currently in development) to send a few US Americans to Mars, they will plant the flag of the nation, and, having beat the Chinese, that will be mostly the end of humanity's Mars aspirations. Basically like the moon missions: Once the novelty is gone, people will likely lose interest in earlier aspirations of establishing a permanent base. Especially if the ISS mice turn out crippled.
- quotemstr 2y ago
  I actually did the math on the Mars problem a little while ago. It wouldn't be that hard to build a big circular railway on Mars that would let the cars experience 1G. (Maybe a few hundred meters diameter?) Think giant luxury Gravitron. You'd stop the train every few days to allow for resupply and entry or exit. It'd certainly be a different society in which pregnant women were expected to sequester themselves in high-G trains for the duration of their pregnancies, but there's no law of nature stopping this approach working. Also, we don't know the shape of the function mapping deformity to gravity. We just have two endpoints: 1g, normal; 0g, deformed. Maybe 0.2g is sufficient to reduce deformities below the noise floor? We need to get a sense of the shape of this curve, preferably using mammal models.
  - cubefox 2y ago
    Unfortunately deformities might not just develop during pregnancy but during the entirety of childhood. Even if the risk is gone after birth, building countless circular railways could be too expensive, or unappealing to women who may prefer not to have children over using this thing for several months. The point about the function of gravity and deformity is valid. More realistically, both gravity and mass of the organism are likely to influence deformities, since animals with larger mass are impacted more by gravity.
  - intended 2y ago
    Dust will end it. Friction from fine particles and abrasion. The train and tracks would have to be shielded. But if you have that, you can make the whole team work on the train. It looks like we will be sending robots to mars for decades. Drilling out habitats before we can move people. Or maybe dynamiting out caves to build habitats.

cubefox 2y ago

Interesting. Here is more detail on how those Soviet quail experiments went: https://finchwench.wordpress.com/2011/09/06/cosmoquails/ https://finchwench.wordpress.com/2011/09/06/cosmoquails/ Unfortunately, the chicks often came out deformed and many died early. Though birds are not closely related to us (our last common ancestor lived more than 300 million years ago), so I really would like to see ISS experiments on whether mice fare any better, or perhaps even worse. Overall, I'm pessimistic about colonizing Mars. In the interview mentioned before, Kelly and Zach Weinersmith also mention other problems, like the necessity to live underground in caves, due to radiation. Building an underground city on Earth would be vastly easier than on Mars, yet nothing like it has ever been tried. I think the most likely thing that will happen is this: In about 20 years, NASA will use Starship (a SpaceX rocket currently in development) to send a few US Americans to Mars, they will plant the flag of the nation, and, having beat the Chinese, that will be mostly the end of humanity's Mars aspirations. Basically like the moon missions: Once the novelty is gone, people will likely lose interest in earlier aspirations of establishing a permanent base. Especially if the ISS mice turn out crippled.

quotemstr 2y ago
I actually did the math on the Mars problem a little while ago. It wouldn't be that hard to build a big circular railway on Mars that would let the cars experience 1G. (Maybe a few hundred meters diameter?) Think giant luxury Gravitron. You'd stop the train every few days to allow for resupply and entry or exit. It'd certainly be a different society in which pregnant women were expected to sequester themselves in high-G trains for the duration of their pregnancies, but there's no law of nature stopping this approach working. Also, we don't know the shape of the function mapping deformity to gravity. We just have two endpoints: 1g, normal; 0g, deformed. Maybe 0.2g is sufficient to reduce deformities below the noise floor? We need to get a sense of the shape of this curve, preferably using mammal models.
- cubefox 2y ago
  Unfortunately deformities might not just develop during pregnancy but during the entirety of childhood. Even if the risk is gone after birth, building countless circular railways could be too expensive, or unappealing to women who may prefer not to have children over using this thing for several months. The point about the function of gravity and deformity is valid. More realistically, both gravity and mass of the organism are likely to influence deformities, since animals with larger mass are impacted more by gravity.
- intended 2y ago
  Dust will end it. Friction from fine particles and abrasion. The train and tracks would have to be shielded. But if you have that, you can make the whole team work on the train. It looks like we will be sending robots to mars for decades. Drilling out habitats before we can move people. Or maybe dynamiting out caves to build habitats.