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Yeah that's kind of their thing, right? The brand of the SerenityOS community is a safe haven for developers who don't want to worry about ethical or code of co
by bowsamic 2y ago
Yeah that's kind of their thing, right? The brand of the SerenityOS community is a safe haven for developers who don't want to worry about ethical or code of conduct issues. And for the most part it seems to work okay. It's like the stupid line about "keep politics out of x" which is of course impossible, but in the case of SerenityOS it kind of works for them.
- mort96 2y agoWell the issue is that they seemingly want to be a safe haven for moderate bigots and regressive types as long as they're polite about it, exactly in line with the "keep politics out of x" thing. Their definition of something "political" and deserving of scorn seems to include something as minor as using gender-neutral pronouns in documentation, while assuming that the reader is male is "apolitical" because that's how things used to be. It seems to be a space designed to avoid anything which the typical 90s white male geek type wouldn't perceive as political. Which in itself is a highly political goal. "Using Lenna is on-brand for SerenityOS" is not meant as a compliment.
- bowsamic 2y agoWell honestly I can't really bring myself to care about it. After all, it's not like we're going into the SerenityOS Discord and seeing Nazis. It's a very slight rebellion, and seems to serve well to defuse tension and actually create a space with less hate than a lot of the spaces which do enforce more modern ethical views.
- mort96 2y agoI just find it sad, more than anything. SerenityOS and Ladybird are interesting projects which I wish I could respect. But instead they seem insistent on regressing back to a dark age in tech where casual sexism was (even more?) commonplace. I can't respect that.
- yayoohooyahoo 2y agoCalling this regressing to a dark age might be why some people choose not to care about such things. Her picture is already everywhere anyway and there's nothing offensive or disrespectful about it.
- account42 2y agoSounds like a problem with your close mindedness rather than with the project. Also, you loss and not the project's.
- tredre3 2y ago> safe haven for moderate bigots and regressive types That's an interesting interpretation. Considering that the project has several trans developers and even a handful of (biological) women I'm going to suggest another interpretation: They're not trying to be a safe haven for bigots, they just don't want the endless CoC/pronouns bikeshedding that plagues too many projects these days.
- ashleyn 2y agoWhen it comes to inclusion, I look at where the rubber actually meets the road. If a project welcomes diverse contributors and doesn't foster an environment that alienates them (which, in part, you can evidence by their continued presence and contributions), that seems way more worth its weight than academic quibbles about the language used in documentation. Are cis and trans women contributors speaking up about any problems? If not, then is the issue really important? I'd rather see a project not actively alienate cis and trans women developers - a higher bar to actively meet than you'd think - than to be religiously attentive to "microaggressions" and the like while doing very little to actually accommodate them as contributors.
- gremlions 2y agoReferring to women as "cis women" as if we are somehow a subset of our own sex class is also alienating and unwelcoming. It's awfully disrespectful and reveals a fundamentally misogynistic view of women.
- bowsamic 2y ago> as if we are somehow a subset of our own sex class is also alienating and unwelcoming You are though, that's just the truth. > It's awfully disrespectful and reveals a fundamentally misogynistic view of women. Sometimes the truth hurts. I'm glad we could teach you it
- gremlions 2y agoYou are of course free to believe whatever sexist gibberish you like. Doesn't make it true.
- akimbostrawman 2y agoi think the issue is more that you feel the need to label anything which does not comply with your ideological view as evil/bigoted/wrong. if it would be a minor issue i hope you wouldn't feel the need to insult and slander volunteers based on simply not agreeing with you, if not i fear what you do to people you have big issues with.
- account42 2y ago> bigots and regressive types This by the way is exactly why I approve of any policies that keep people like you out of projects. If you can't learn to get along with people with different beliefs then don't expect them to welcome you.
- oooiu 2y ago[flagged]
- bowsamic 2y agoIt works for them but I don't think it's appropriate everywhere, and there is a cost, if not immediately certainly in the future
- mort96 2y agoWhat you're calling "nonsense" is being baseline decent human beings. That's not a headache, but if it was one, it'd be one that's worth the cost.