4 ms·

You could probably make the same argument for search bar vs. peer-reviewed publications. Of course, the search bar (which is also AI, by the way) can help you t

You could probably make the same argument for search bar vs. peer-reviewed publications. Of course, the search bar (which is also AI, by the way) can help you to get to the peer-reviewed publications. But the same is true for ChatGPT. The problem is that ChatGPT sounds like presenting objective facts. But maybe the lesson here is that just because something sounds right, it isn't necessarily right, and that is something that should be taught in school. Of course, that undermines the function of school to produce obedient citizens.

llm_trw 2y ago
I had that same argument, the teacher who told me to not trust non peer reviewed articles ended up flooding her Facebook was with pro-brexit lies a decade later. Turns out critical thinking is not outsourcing your thinking to a third party, be it a peer reviewes journal, google search results, or chatgpt.
- lionkor 2y ago
  What is a 'pro brexit lie'?
  - auggierose 2y ago
    £350m a week for the NHS
  - Angostura 2y ago
    Immigration will be reduced We will be able to negotiate excellent trade deals outside the EU effortlessly The EU need our trade so badly we will be able to negotiate a seamless trade deal with them … and many others.
    - lionkor 2y ago
      interesting, thank you! I hadnt followed it when it happened.
    - werdnk 2y ago
      I think believing the first lie that conservatives would really reduce immigration is the product of trusting politicians too much. Another faction of the pro-Brexiteers would think of the system in terms of a uniparty. The fundamentalists like Farage have no chance of getting elected as PM in the British system, though he did get an MP seat now. Would things change if Farage were PM? I'm cynical, probably not.
      - bostik 2y ago
        There was a fundamental lie / delusion at the heart of the claim. The second thing a trade deal with another country implies "allow more of our nationals to migrate, and make it easier for them to come over". (The first thing is obviously: "let our products in".) And this can be seen from the raw numbers too. Before brexit, the annual net migration to UK was about 300k. After brexit, the annual net migration to UK is ~700k.[0] (745k in 2022, 680k in 2023.) And quite a bit of that from the fresh trade partners. The best way I have heard anyone describe the disaster that's Brexit was as "nostalgic self-immolation for the population who still dream of the Britain where faces were white, passports were blue, and the map was Imperial Pink." 0: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06...
- auggierose 2y ago
  Indeed, you could apply the same argument to peer-reviewed articles, although at the moment they are still much (much!) more reliable than ChatGPT.
  - kukkeliskuu 2y ago
    Ever heard of replication crisis?
    - immibis 2y ago
      Still better than ChatGPT.
- superfist 2y ago
  "not trust non peer reviewed articles" - this is such naive advice. It is not black and white, peer reviewed articles only increase chance that information included in article is legit because it was verified in some formal process. I wonder how many times people giving such simple advices mention how often peer reviewed articles are retracted or can't even be replicated and how this vary accross disciplines.
  - immibis 2y ago
    And, like all formal processes, it has been gamed. Many journals are full of high quality material; others are full of peer reviewed bullshit.
lionkor 2y ago
It also undermines the way schools work to teach kids. In order to not have to explain everything, almost all lessons are mostly teaching you some axioms, even if they really are disputed, or have caveats, etc. Good teachers make clear where there is an axiom, and where something is just being simplified or assumed for the sake of saving time. I am a product of the German school system, I'd say I wasn't indoctrinated too much, so its not entirely broken, but with these new """tools""" maybe we need a reform anyways.
- par1970 2y ago
  > In order to not have to explain everything, almost all lessons are mostly teaching you some axioms, even if they really are disputed, or have caveats, etc. Good teachers make clear where there is an axiom, and where something is just being simplified or assumed for the sake of saving time. What exactly do you mean by the word “axiom” here?
  - lionkor 2y ago
    Something that is taught to be a self-evident or universally recognized truth
    - par1970 2y ago
      Does “self-evident” just mean that anyone who knows the sentence’s meaning can determine that it is true without any need to gather empirical data? eg, All bachelors are unmarried. eg, If X is a triangle, then X has three sides. eg, the world is round or it is not the case that the world is round. And does “universally recognized” just mean that most people believe the proposition is true?
      - lionkor 2y ago
        In this context an axiom is a nonlogical axiom, in other words an assumption, one that is not to be questioned or discussed
puttycat 2y ago
> the search bar (which is also AI, by the way) It's AI in the older sense of Machine Learning, not in the currently widespread sense of an LLM, which is the source of the problem that the author is discussing.
- auggierose 2y ago
  Face palm.
bamboozled 2y ago
A good way to learn this is to build something, wood working is an awesome way to quickly find out, looking, feeling and even someone taking a measurement isn’t enough, you need to take two :)

llm_trw 2y ago

I had that same argument, the teacher who told me to not trust non peer reviewed articles ended up flooding her Facebook was with pro-brexit lies a decade later. Turns out critical thinking is not outsourcing your thinking to a third party, be it a peer reviewes journal, google search results, or chatgpt.

lionkor 2y ago
What is a 'pro brexit lie'?
- auggierose 2y ago
  £350m a week for the NHS
- Angostura 2y ago
  Immigration will be reduced We will be able to negotiate excellent trade deals outside the EU effortlessly The EU need our trade so badly we will be able to negotiate a seamless trade deal with them … and many others.
  - lionkor 2y ago
    interesting, thank you! I hadnt followed it when it happened.
  - werdnk 2y ago
    I think believing the first lie that conservatives would really reduce immigration is the product of trusting politicians too much. Another faction of the pro-Brexiteers would think of the system in terms of a uniparty. The fundamentalists like Farage have no chance of getting elected as PM in the British system, though he did get an MP seat now. Would things change if Farage were PM? I'm cynical, probably not.
    - bostik 2y ago
      There was a fundamental lie / delusion at the heart of the claim. The second thing a trade deal with another country implies "allow more of our nationals to migrate, and make it easier for them to come over". (The first thing is obviously: "let our products in".) And this can be seen from the raw numbers too. Before brexit, the annual net migration to UK was about 300k. After brexit, the annual net migration to UK is ~700k.[0] (745k in 2022, 680k in 2023.) And quite a bit of that from the fresh trade partners. The best way I have heard anyone describe the disaster that's Brexit was as "nostalgic self-immolation for the population who still dream of the Britain where faces were white, passports were blue, and the map was Imperial Pink." 0: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06...
auggierose 2y ago
Indeed, you could apply the same argument to peer-reviewed articles, although at the moment they are still much (much!) more reliable than ChatGPT.
- kukkeliskuu 2y ago
  Ever heard of replication crisis?
  - immibis 2y ago
    Still better than ChatGPT.
superfist 2y ago
"not trust non peer reviewed articles" - this is such naive advice. It is not black and white, peer reviewed articles only increase chance that information included in article is legit because it was verified in some formal process. I wonder how many times people giving such simple advices mention how often peer reviewed articles are retracted or can't even be replicated and how this vary accross disciplines.
- immibis 2y ago
  And, like all formal processes, it has been gamed. Many journals are full of high quality material; others are full of peer reviewed bullshit.

lionkor 2y ago

It also undermines the way schools work to teach kids. In order to not have to explain everything, almost all lessons are mostly teaching you some axioms, even if they really are disputed, or have caveats, etc. Good teachers make clear where there is an axiom, and where something is just being simplified or assumed for the sake of saving time. I am a product of the German school system, I'd say I wasn't indoctrinated too much, so its not entirely broken, but with these new """tools""" maybe we need a reform anyways.

par1970 2y ago
> In order to not have to explain everything, almost all lessons are mostly teaching you some axioms, even if they really are disputed, or have caveats, etc. Good teachers make clear where there is an axiom, and where something is just being simplified or assumed for the sake of saving time. What exactly do you mean by the word “axiom” here?
- lionkor 2y ago
  Something that is taught to be a self-evident or universally recognized truth
  - par1970 2y ago
    Does “self-evident” just mean that anyone who knows the sentence’s meaning can determine that it is true without any need to gather empirical data? eg, All bachelors are unmarried. eg, If X is a triangle, then X has three sides. eg, the world is round or it is not the case that the world is round. And does “universally recognized” just mean that most people believe the proposition is true?
    - lionkor 2y ago
      In this context an axiom is a nonlogical axiom, in other words an assumption, one that is not to be questioned or discussed

puttycat 2y ago

> the search bar (which is also AI, by the way) It's AI in the older sense of Machine Learning, not in the currently widespread sense of an LLM, which is the source of the problem that the author is discussing.

auggierose 2y ago
Face palm.

bamboozled 2y ago

A good way to learn this is to build something, wood working is an awesome way to quickly find out, looking, feeling and even someone taking a measurement isn’t enough, you need to take two :)