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I got Deja Vu upon seeing "Alien Lenna" and sure enough... I've seen and commented on this before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27374942 https://news.yc
by userbinator 2y ago
I got Deja Vu upon seeing "Alien Lenna" and sure enough... I've seen and commented on this before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27374942 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27374942 (2021)
- riedel 2y ago[flagged]
- userbinator 2y ago[flagged]
- leononame 2y agoAfaik, Lena herself said she'd like her image to stop being used as a test image. And IEEE already retired its use. Even if you think it's woke, there's good reason to respect the model's wish
- userbinator 2y agohttps://www.wired.com/story/finding-lena-the-patron-saint-of-jpegs/ https://www.wired.com/story/finding-lena-the-patron-saint-of... Lena doesn’t harbor any resentment toward Sawchuk and his imitators for how they appropriated her image; the only note of regret she expressed was that she wasn’t better compensated. In her view, the photograph is an immense accomplishment that just happened to take on a life of its own. “I’m really proud of that picture,” she said.
- hhh 2y agohttps://www.sfgate.com/news/article/How-a-Nude-Playboy-Photo-Became-a-Fixture-14878319.php https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/How-a-Nude-Playboy-Photo... This is what’s cited on Wikipedia about the cessation of use.
- g15jv2dp 2y agoShe later said she wanted people to stop using the picture. https://finchcompany.com/projects/losing-lena-trailer/ https://finchcompany.com/projects/losing-lena-trailer/ https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/mar/31/tech-publisher-bans-playboy-centrefold-test-image-from-its-journals https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/mar/31/tech-publ... > Forsén herself has also suggested that the photo should be retired. In 2019, she said she was “really proud” of the picture and she re-created the shot for Wired magazine, which called her “the patron saint of JPEGs”. But later that year, the documentary Losing Lena spearheaded the latest effort to encourage computer science to move on. “I retired from modelling a long time ago,” Forsén said on its release. “It’s time I retired from tech, too. We can make a simple change today that creates a lasting change for tomorrow. Let’s commit to losing me.”
- AlexandrB 2y agoDoesn't it seem weird that she was proud of the picture when interviewed in a neutral context (Wired), but wanted it removed (not very strongly might I add) when interviewed by documentarians making a film with the express purpose of trying to get her picture removed? In the movie quote she even alludes to the title of the film: "Let's commit to losing me". It basically sounds like she gave them the soundbite they wanted.
- g15jv2dp 2y agoWhat's weird here? She can be proud about the picture and think it's a thing of the past that needs to stopped being used.
- Jamie9912 2y agoNot really, if she understood well what the photograph was being used for at the time, you can't retrospectively wish against it. That's like saying Oh I don't want to be a pornstar anymore, take down all my content thanks.
- biorach 2y ago> you can't retrospectively wish against it She absolutely can. And we, collectively, can choose to respect that wish by using a different test image in future. And why not? It's no real burden to make the change.
- petee 2y agoI agree, being a decent person is an active choice we should all strive for. The burden here is that a number of people are so afraid of being "woke" that they'd rather double down being scummy than just find a different jpeg. If it was their daughter I'm sure they'd have a different opinion
- josefx 2y ago> If it was their daughter I'm sure they'd have a different opinion Are we back in the 60s where a father has to sign off on the daughters job application? We are talking about a woman who willingly signed up for a playboy photoshoot, had been aware of the image being used and circulated for decades with no issues.
- biorach 2y ago> Are we back in the 60s where a father has to sign off on the daughters job application Strawnan bs. No one advocated anything like that. > We are talking about a woman who willingly signed up for a playboy photoshoo Yep. And decades later asked it to not be used anymore. You can waste as much time with long winded arguments as you want. Or you could just be decent and not use the image. Your call.
- FeepingCreature 2y agoThe anti-woke, respectful move would be to find another Playboy centerfold.
- account42 2y agoWhy?
- FeepingCreature 2y agoBecause the legitimate argument "it is against the wishes of the model" masks the underlying, foundational but hidden reason, which is "it appeals to the prurient interest of men in women, which I find detestable". Thus, finding another model who both consents to having her picture used but still appeals to the prurient male interest fulfills the stated claim while frustrating the unstated one. I'm sure Naomi Wu would be up for it.
- bowsamic 2y agoWhat do you mean by that word? Does it mean insincere? EDIT: Why the downvotes? I'm genuinely curious. I see the word thrown around a lot but I can't get a grasp on what it means
- tzot 2y agoI assume you were downvoted because downvoters would not believe your question was genuine. It is a fact that in the past groups of people have been ostracized, ignored, paid less, acknowledged less, respected less than today based on their race, gender, sexuality, country, profession etc. This has been raised as an issue and for some years —perhaps decades— a counter-motion has been going on: openly promote/respect/acknowledge people that were previously demoted/non-respected/unacknowledged. The exaggerated examples of these counter-motions are called “woke”. Imagine that we would like to promote the role of ants in the environment because they were largely ignored in the past, so someone makes a movie where an ant beats by sheer physical strength a lion; that would definitely be “woke“. There are cases where people can disagree whether something is “woke”; for example, think a woman who travels in time to a patriarchal society centuries ago where women were considered property and part of the background and yet she acts in an independent, outspoken, audacious way to men around her without anyone punishing her. That could be called “woke”, but it depends on one's sense of exaggeration. Reactions against such exaggerations is called “anti-woke”. A great example IMO of a humorous “anti-woke” statement is the image included in the following link, which is a poster for an imaginary documentary: https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2440971-netflix https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2440971-netflix
- amake 2y ago> The exaggerated examples of these counter-motions are called “woke”. This is your definition. I doubt you will find any agreement on what "woke" means, because right-wingers use it to refer to anything and everything that they dislike.
- petee 2y ago[flagged]
- wwoovvo 2y ago[flagged]
- petee 2y ago[flagged]
- amake 2y ago[flagged]
- smcl 2y agoPetee has simply said that we should respect someone’s pretty reasonable preferences. You’ve popped up out of nowhere utterly furious for seemingly very little reason. If this is how you behave I think most of us would far prefer to have Petee as a coworker than you. If you’re having a lot of conflicts with your colleagues about this, the problem might not lie with your colleagues…
- account42 2y ago> Petee has simply said that we should respect someone’s pretty reasonable preferences. That's not an accurate reading of the Petee's post. > I think most of us would far prefer to have Petee as a coworker than you. Speak for yourself.
- cinntaile 2y agoIt's an image used within imaging since the 70s. It's used because everybody uses it. It being part of an old Playboy centerfold isn't the relevant bit here.
- panzi 2y agoWe do it because we always did it is such a great argument.
- ck45 2y agoLena said “Once upon a time, I was the centerfold of Playboy,” says the former model in the new documentary Losing Lena. “But I retired from modeling a long time ago. It’s time I retired from tech, too.” See https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/How-a-Nude-Playboy-Photo-Became-a-Fixture-14878319.php https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/How-a-Nude-Playboy-Photo...
- viraptor 2y agoSometimes we keep doing things because we don't stop and think, but it's good to stop and consider if we should continue or change. "Because we've always done it that way" / "because everyone's doing it" can mask many nasty things we wouldn't start doing if given a completely fresh context.
- cinntaile 2y agoThat's very true, but when looking at all the source materials I don't consider this to be one of those nasty things that absolutely need changing. If I was releasing imaging research or any other kind of publicly accessible data I would not use the image just to avoid the angry mob, but I think this is blown out of proportion.
- timschumi 2y agoApart from the fact that this probably isn't common knowledge, this article is from 2021 (which the OP failed to disclose). Why not be mad at IEEE for a change? They apparently only managed to ban use of the image in April of 2024.
- f33d5173 2y agoWhy kill whimsy? Do malloc bugs need especially serious images, like concrete walls or men in business suits?
- kmeisthax 2y agoThe Lenna image isn't whimsical, it's a cropped nude photo. The people against it don't want image processing to be boring, they want it to be more inclusive. There are hundreds of other whimsical examples that would not be alienating to a good chunk of women.
- cxvx 2y agoMost women don't care about this at all. It's way, way down the bottom of the list of sexist bullshit in this industry. Complaining about it is more performative than anything. It's a way to pretend you're doing something for women.
- userbinator 2y agoCan confirm, I know a woman who works on image and video compression and she doesn't think Lena is a problem. "It's a pretty woman. What's not to like?" Note that video compression has "foreman", of the opposite gender, and the angry mob hasn't gone after that one.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]