5 ms·

I’ve attended Blizzcon 2018 and it was a very memorable experience. Not just because it was the pinnacle of Starcraft for me, but also the moment when i saw the

I’ve attended Blizzcon 2018 and it was a very memorable experience. Not just because it was the pinnacle of Starcraft for me, but also the moment when i saw the first non-korean player to win the championship. Serral, the champion on that year and one of the greatest Zerg player ever, wouldn’t be coming as underdog to the matches with Koreans that dominated the stage for almost two decades. Once the final match was over i heard the most humble and respectful words from the champion to the audience and other players. This was such an inspirational moment for me. Shortly after my starcraft journey ended, the interest faded, but that speech left a huge mark on my further activities and perception of the competition in anything. Reminded me that the race is long and at the end it’s always with yourself.

bigcat12345678 2y ago
They dumb down the mechanics so much so that Korean supremacy is overthrown
- energy123 2y ago
  Korea stopped dominating because Starcraft dropped in popularity inside Korea relative to newer games. Then the world's much larger population size produced a few players who could outcompete them.
  - starcraftgamer 2y ago
    SC2 was never that popular in Korea to be honest. SC1 pros came over to the game because there was decent money in it, but in PC Bangs people were still playing SC1 and League far more often. Blizzard tried to spend a lot to market the game in Korea but it didn't really take off with the general public. Even today the GSL (the most competitive individual league for SC2) just had its last championship and is cancelled while the ASL (the most competitive individual league for SC1) is still going strong. However it was much bigger before SC2's release. Not to take anything away from Serral, he's a fantastic player, but Korea was never as invested in SC2 as they were in SC1. Players were getting by on extremely strong mechanics and there wasn't the kind of professional team infrastructure that existed around SC1.
- Jabrov 2y ago
  Can you give specific examples of how the mechanics have been dumbed down?
  - taejavu 2y ago
    Not OP but I can answer this. The most obvious example is in Starcraft 1 you can’t select more than 12 units at a time, with a population cap of 200. This meant to move your army you had to make many, many more actions than in SC2 where you can just drag a box around your whole army (and/or hotkey that whole group) and attack+move. Personally I think that was a technical limitation of the first game and a huge ergonomic improvement in the second. Other things like having groups of buildings on hotkeys means you don’t have to go back to your base to order more units and set the rally point (where units go when they’re built) for all those buildings at once. This makes StarCraft to be an insanely micro-mechanic intensive game at high levels.
    - netcoyote 2y ago
      As the person who implemented it originally, it was not a technical limitation but a design choice. In the early implementation of Warcraft 1 (1993-ish) I made it possible to select all the units on-screen at once with drag-select, and even more by scrolling and shift-clicking or shift-click-dragging. Allen Adham (president of Blizzard, and exec producer for Warcraft) argued convincingly that only 4 units (for War 1) should be selected at a time. I argued against it pretty vociferously at the time … and in later days (post launch, most likely) came around to his way of thinking. Attacking with a superfluid of units takes less skill than selecting troops in small batches, and so requires to use more intent & skill. Warcraft 2 allowed 9 units to be selected, and StarCraft more.
      - kzrdude 2y ago
        I don't think it's about blizzard but gaming culture in general that caused the gradual change. Gradually lowering the bar on skills required to play in some way. Starcraft 2's F2 to select the whole army on the map is the other extreme and where it eventually landed right (I think that was introduced in a SC2 expansion, it was not a launch feature?)
dmead 2y ago
Oh hey a barcode on hacker news.
- quartesixte 2y ago
  HA so funny seeing one without | l and I being the same glyph
seoulmetro 2y ago
Starcraft was already well and truly dead by 2018. Koreans don't really want to excel at dead games. The OGs may stick around but they won't really try hard.

bigcat12345678 2y ago

They dumb down the mechanics so much so that Korean supremacy is overthrown

energy123 2y ago
Korea stopped dominating because Starcraft dropped in popularity inside Korea relative to newer games. Then the world's much larger population size produced a few players who could outcompete them.
- starcraftgamer 2y ago
  SC2 was never that popular in Korea to be honest. SC1 pros came over to the game because there was decent money in it, but in PC Bangs people were still playing SC1 and League far more often. Blizzard tried to spend a lot to market the game in Korea but it didn't really take off with the general public. Even today the GSL (the most competitive individual league for SC2) just had its last championship and is cancelled while the ASL (the most competitive individual league for SC1) is still going strong. However it was much bigger before SC2's release. Not to take anything away from Serral, he's a fantastic player, but Korea was never as invested in SC2 as they were in SC1. Players were getting by on extremely strong mechanics and there wasn't the kind of professional team infrastructure that existed around SC1.
Jabrov 2y ago
Can you give specific examples of how the mechanics have been dumbed down?
- taejavu 2y ago
  Not OP but I can answer this. The most obvious example is in Starcraft 1 you can’t select more than 12 units at a time, with a population cap of 200. This meant to move your army you had to make many, many more actions than in SC2 where you can just drag a box around your whole army (and/or hotkey that whole group) and attack+move. Personally I think that was a technical limitation of the first game and a huge ergonomic improvement in the second. Other things like having groups of buildings on hotkeys means you don’t have to go back to your base to order more units and set the rally point (where units go when they’re built) for all those buildings at once. This makes StarCraft to be an insanely micro-mechanic intensive game at high levels.
  - netcoyote 2y ago
    As the person who implemented it originally, it was not a technical limitation but a design choice. In the early implementation of Warcraft 1 (1993-ish) I made it possible to select all the units on-screen at once with drag-select, and even more by scrolling and shift-clicking or shift-click-dragging. Allen Adham (president of Blizzard, and exec producer for Warcraft) argued convincingly that only 4 units (for War 1) should be selected at a time. I argued against it pretty vociferously at the time … and in later days (post launch, most likely) came around to his way of thinking. Attacking with a superfluid of units takes less skill than selecting troops in small batches, and so requires to use more intent & skill. Warcraft 2 allowed 9 units to be selected, and StarCraft more.
    - kzrdude 2y ago
      I don't think it's about blizzard but gaming culture in general that caused the gradual change. Gradually lowering the bar on skills required to play in some way. Starcraft 2's F2 to select the whole army on the map is the other extreme and where it eventually landed right (I think that was introduced in a SC2 expansion, it was not a launch feature?)

dmead 2y ago

Oh hey a barcode on hacker news.

quartesixte 2y ago
HA so funny seeing one without | l and I being the same glyph

seoulmetro 2y ago

Starcraft was already well and truly dead by 2018. Koreans don't really want to excel at dead games. The OGs may stick around but they won't really try hard.