9 ms·

Everything CIA touches turns into shit x_x

by gyudin 2y ago

ta8645 2y ago
Seems to be the nature of secret governmental organizations. There is of course some need for secrecy, but at the level and to the extent that it's at now, it would be more surprising to find out it wasn't being misused. We should really not be allowing our government to operate with such secrecy. It seems inevitable that government organizations, operating in secret, will be used against the people they're ostensibly created to protect.
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  Given that it's been ~75 years since George Orwell and Sonia Brownell married, do we have any idea yet whether she started working with the Information Research Department before, or after, their marriage?
  - vinnyvichy 2y ago
    https://amp.theguardian.com/uk/2003/jun/21/books.artsandhumanities https://amp.theguardian.com/uk/2003/jun/21/books.artsandhuma... Let's pin the suspicions on Celia More: https://www.hoover.org/research/celias-office https://www.hoover.org/research/celias-office MM-P might be the guy you are looking for. True love of Sonia, crush of Simone, disturbingly normal >His 1947 book, Humanism and Terror, has been widely understood as defense of the Soviet farce trials. >the (now-lost) thesis La Notion de multiple intelligible chez Plotin ("Plotinus's Notion of the Intelligible Many"), https://old.reddit.com/r/SWORDS/comments/1bopjmi/crosscultural_japanesevietnamese_katanadha/ https://old.reddit.com/r/SWORDS/comments/1bopjmi/crosscultur...
- adolph 2y ago
  See also: Stupidity: My Reading List for a 12-Week Course (and a Final Exam) By Ted Gioia https://www.honest-broker.com/p/stupidity-a-reading-list https://www.honest-broker.com/p/stupidity-a-reading-list Here’s Tuchman from “The March of Folly:” Misgovernment is of four kinds, often in combination. They are: 1) tyranny or oppression, of which history provides so many well known examples that they do not need citing; 2) excessive ambition, such as Athens' attempted conquest of Sicily in the Peloponnesian War, Philip II's of England via the Armada, Germany's twice-attempted rule of Europe by a self-conceived master race, Japan's bid for an empire of Asia; 3) incompetence or decadence, as in the case of the late Roman empire, the last Romanovs and the last imperial dynasty of China; and finally 4) folly or perversity. This book is concerned with the last in a specific manifestation; that is, the pursuit of policy contrary to the self-interest of the constituency or state involved. Self-interest is whatever conduces to the welfare or advantage of the body being governed; folly is a policy that in these terms is counter-productive.
- mistermann 2y ago
  > We should really not be allowing our government to operate with such secrecy. I agree, but what can we do, and how. "Democracy" seems to be the most popular answer, except democracy is what brought us this in the first place. Maybe science....is this even on their radar (which covers "everything" so they say)?
  - ClumsyPilot 2y ago
    > "Democracy" seems to be the most popular answer Just like Capitalism, that term is too vague to be useful. We could pick 500 people at random, stuff them into congress, and have no elections - that would be democracy. You could have a referendum on everything, and that would be democracy. To address these kind of issues you have to get into details of what makes a well functioning vs poorly functioning democracy, what are your KPIs - for example, you have only two parties and Byzantine process of selecting candidates, is that antidemocratic and does that allow financial interests undue influence?
    - mistermann 2y ago
      >Just like Capitalism, that term is too vague to be useful. I disagree: vagueness of words is very useful, so useful it can keep billions of people (the smarter the better) in a Stockholm Syndrome like situation indefinitely, including defending it against anyone who tried to liberate them.
FredPret 2y ago
They can’t exactly trumpet their victories though. You only hear about some of their failures

Everything CIA touches turns into shit x_x

by gyudin 2y ago

Everything CIA touches turns into shit x_x

Seems to be the nature of secret governmental organizations. There is of course some need for secrecy, but at the level and to the extent that it's at now, it would be more surprising to find out it wasn't being misused. We should really not be allowing our government to operate with such secrecy. It seems inevitable that government organizations, operating in secret, will be used against the people they're ostensibly created to protect.

082349872349872 2y ago
Given that it's been ~75 years since George Orwell and Sonia Brownell married, do we have any idea yet whether she started working with the Information Research Department before, or after, their marriage?
- vinnyvichy 2y ago
  https://amp.theguardian.com/uk/2003/jun/21/books.artsandhumanities https://amp.theguardian.com/uk/2003/jun/21/books.artsandhuma... Let's pin the suspicions on Celia More: https://www.hoover.org/research/celias-office https://www.hoover.org/research/celias-office MM-P might be the guy you are looking for. True love of Sonia, crush of Simone, disturbingly normal >His 1947 book, Humanism and Terror, has been widely understood as defense of the Soviet farce trials. >the (now-lost) thesis La Notion de multiple intelligible chez Plotin ("Plotinus's Notion of the Intelligible Many"), https://old.reddit.com/r/SWORDS/comments/1bopjmi/crosscultural_japanesevietnamese_katanadha/ https://old.reddit.com/r/SWORDS/comments/1bopjmi/crosscultur...
adolph 2y ago
See also: Stupidity: My Reading List for a 12-Week Course (and a Final Exam) By Ted Gioia https://www.honest-broker.com/p/stupidity-a-reading-list https://www.honest-broker.com/p/stupidity-a-reading-list Here’s Tuchman from “The March of Folly:” Misgovernment is of four kinds, often in combination. They are: 1) tyranny or oppression, of which history provides so many well known examples that they do not need citing; 2) excessive ambition, such as Athens' attempted conquest of Sicily in the Peloponnesian War, Philip II's of England via the Armada, Germany's twice-attempted rule of Europe by a self-conceived master race, Japan's bid for an empire of Asia; 3) incompetence or decadence, as in the case of the late Roman empire, the last Romanovs and the last imperial dynasty of China; and finally 4) folly or perversity. This book is concerned with the last in a specific manifestation; that is, the pursuit of policy contrary to the self-interest of the constituency or state involved. Self-interest is whatever conduces to the welfare or advantage of the body being governed; folly is a policy that in these terms is counter-productive.
mistermann 2y ago
> We should really not be allowing our government to operate with such secrecy. I agree, but what can we do, and how. "Democracy" seems to be the most popular answer, except democracy is what brought us this in the first place. Maybe science....is this even on their radar (which covers "everything" so they say)?
- ClumsyPilot 2y ago
  > "Democracy" seems to be the most popular answer Just like Capitalism, that term is too vague to be useful. We could pick 500 people at random, stuff them into congress, and have no elections - that would be democracy. You could have a referendum on everything, and that would be democracy. To address these kind of issues you have to get into details of what makes a well functioning vs poorly functioning democracy, what are your KPIs - for example, you have only two parties and Byzantine process of selecting candidates, is that antidemocratic and does that allow financial interests undue influence?
  - mistermann 2y ago
    >Just like Capitalism, that term is too vague to be useful. I disagree: vagueness of words is very useful, so useful it can keep billions of people (the smarter the better) in a Stockholm Syndrome like situation indefinitely, including defending it against anyone who tried to liberate them.

FredPret 2y ago

They can’t exactly trumpet their victories though. You only hear about some of their failures