3 ms·

Doesn't tell me anything about Energy Density, Volume, or Recharge Cycle.

by ksec 2y ago

catapart 2y ago
From the article: it was tested only to 100 cycles. So this is experimental and a product version won't be available for a year or (likely) longer. And as products naturally niche into longevity, weight, capacity, and other categories, those metrics will become relevant at that point. Until then, it's just experimental results with metrics relevant to previous experimental results.
GlibMonkeyDeath 2y ago
"demonstrates a new sodium battery architecture with stable cycling for several hundred cycles" So nowhere near enough for grid storage (depending on their definition of "stable".) The plot shows ~400 Whr/kg and ~800 Whr/L densities. For grid storage that is fine. The paper https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-024-01569-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-024-01569-9 is unfortunately behind a paywall. We will see. Battery technologies live or die on whether the nasty, complicated surface reactions are truly reversible over discharge cycles at the sizes needed to be practical...
- gpm 2y ago
  400 Whr/kg is competing for the highest energy density applications that can run on rechargeable batteries. Things that fly. Cars. Not grid storage. I mean if it was otherwise suitable for grid storage it's not a downside obviously, but at those energy densities it can be inferior in terms of cost and/or cycle life and still be commercially viable in other significant markets. Not to mention this is research, it doesn't have to directly result in a commercially viable product.
1970-01-01 2y ago
These monthly breakthrough announcements are getting annoying. Seems that "several hundred cycles" was good enough to publish this one.
- tills13 2y ago
  Eh, we start with 100 cycles and then someone has an idea and we go to 1000 and so on. Interesting times we live in.
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    Even at 100 cycles it’s likely cheaper for some applications - i.e. helicopters.
Genbox 2y ago
Research deals with theory. Not everything in research is immediately practical. Lots of engineering, tweaking, and testing goes into market-ready products. This announcement is an achievement for science, not a consumer-ready product.
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  > Research deals with theory. There is research that deals only with theory, but empirical research deals with practice, even if not always pragmatics.

Doesn't tell me anything about Energy Density, Volume, or Recharge Cycle.

by ksec 2y ago

Doesn't tell me anything about Energy Density, Volume, or Recharge Cycle.

From the article: it was tested only to 100 cycles. So this is experimental and a product version won't be available for a year or (likely) longer. And as products naturally niche into longevity, weight, capacity, and other categories, those metrics will become relevant at that point. Until then, it's just experimental results with metrics relevant to previous experimental results.

GlibMonkeyDeath 2y ago

"demonstrates a new sodium battery architecture with stable cycling for several hundred cycles" So nowhere near enough for grid storage (depending on their definition of "stable".) The plot shows ~400 Whr/kg and ~800 Whr/L densities. For grid storage that is fine. The paper https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-024-01569-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-024-01569-9 is unfortunately behind a paywall. We will see. Battery technologies live or die on whether the nasty, complicated surface reactions are truly reversible over discharge cycles at the sizes needed to be practical...

gpm 2y ago
400 Whr/kg is competing for the highest energy density applications that can run on rechargeable batteries. Things that fly. Cars. Not grid storage. I mean if it was otherwise suitable for grid storage it's not a downside obviously, but at those energy densities it can be inferior in terms of cost and/or cycle life and still be commercially viable in other significant markets. Not to mention this is research, it doesn't have to directly result in a commercially viable product.

1970-01-01 2y ago

These monthly breakthrough announcements are getting annoying. Seems that "several hundred cycles" was good enough to publish this one.

tills13 2y ago
Eh, we start with 100 cycles and then someone has an idea and we go to 1000 and so on. Interesting times we live in.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  Even at 100 cycles it’s likely cheaper for some applications - i.e. helicopters.

Genbox 2y ago

Research deals with theory. Not everything in research is immediately practical. Lots of engineering, tweaking, and testing goes into market-ready products. This announcement is an achievement for science, not a consumer-ready product.

dragonwriter 2y ago
> Research deals with theory. There is research that deals only with theory, but empirical research deals with practice, even if not always pragmatics.