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Ask HN: Solutions for Sustainable Tires before 2050?
Almost all automotive tires are made of synthetic "rubber".
Synthetic rubber tires pollute microplastics which harm aquatic life including salmon.
So, we need to make tires out of different materials in order to spare the environment, society and public health, and economy.
What are some potential solutions for sustainable tire products and production?
- talldayo 2y agoWe can't even be assed to mandate repairable smartphones in 2024. People don't care about our environment, they care about affordable technology that does what they want while marketing the values they respect to them. Tire manufacturers, big tech, and most sizable businesses have figured this out by now. Even if you invented a miracle rubber alternative, it was cheaper than synthetic rubber, and you made it freely available, tire manufacturers would still undercut each other until they had the highest-margin product. Any way you slice it, our miraculous free market exclusively incentivizes manufacturers to destroy the one planet our human race has. My advice? Give up on the environment. You're on Hacker News, the majority of this website would happily destroy the earth for decades to come if it meant they could be king for a year. Even outside HN, who consciously considers the environment when making purchasing decisions anymore? Who stands up to the lobbyists that stop pro-environmental change from happening? Nobody. We suffer because people with money insist it's the only way we can live, and biodegradable tires aren't going to change that political status-quo.
- westurner 2y agoWell, good luck with that approach, its outcomes, the costs and losses including poor food quality, and the gosh darn heat.
- talldayo 2y agoIt's not my approach, it's our approach. I don't like it either, but I also lack the determinate capacity to change it. It's easier to just acknowledge that nobody values anything besides greed and resource competition unless the monopoly on violence demands otherwise.
- westurner 2y agoA: Looking to share solutions for [XYZ] B: Don't even try, it's hopeless, just do hedonism without consideration like everyone else A: Use market incentives to change production and consumption behavior to head off costs and loss.
- talldayo 2y agoIt's less of a chicken-and-egg problem and more of a cart-and-horse one. You fundamentally cannot promote a new solution in a market that won't respect the values you're trying to promote. Hedonism doesn't drive synthetic rubber sales, price-sensitive customers do.
- fsflover 2y ago> price-sensitive customers do So we should fight with poverty.
- talldayo 2y agoFixing poverty doesn't fix the free market. Customers will be price-sensitive no matter how rich they are because tires are a utility we don't benefit from splurging on. In other market segments, it's convenience or proprietary lock-in that separates them from positive alternatives. The only way to "fix" it in America is to legislate the tire manufacturers into compliance. And when you do that people will kick and scream and say you've ruined their free market, so you've got to pick your poison and stand by it.
- westurner 2y agoPenalties or Incentives, to get the market to less expensive sustainable tires? - An N $ rebate for sustainable tires - Capital investment into R&D and scaling production of sustainable tires - Grants for open access research into cost-viable sustainable tires
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- westurner 2y ago"Here’s how Michelin plans to make its tires more renewable: The tire company wants a completely sustainable tire by 2050" (2024) https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/07/heres-how-michelin-plans-to-make-its-tires-more-renewable/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/07/heres-how-michelin-plan... "Michelin Sustainable Tires Use a Rice Byproduct" https://www.motortrend.com/features/michelin-sustainable-rice-husk-silica-tire-technology/ https://www.motortrend.com/features/michelin-sustainable-ric... OTOH, Dandelion rubber (Taraxagum), Hemp
- westurner 2y agoDandelion Rubber; Taraxagum. - "Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37728005 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37728005 - Taraxagum is extractable with just water FWIU - Would GMO dandelions be easier to scale up with traditional and vertical gardening? How could dandelions be genetically-engineered for use in sustainable tires? Larger stems, less or no seeds to avoid clogging up vertical gardening, - What are some uses for the non-stem waste part of dandelion flowers? Hemp "rubber" /? hemp rubber https://www.google.com/search?q=hemp+rubber https://www.google.com/search?q=hemp+rubber "New Green Polymeric Composites Based on Hemp and Natural Rubber Processed by Electron Beam Irradiation" (2014) https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1155/2014/684047 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1155/2014/684047 51 citations : https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=10435090488138287837&as_sdt=5,43&sciodt=0,43&hl=en https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=1043509048813828783... : > Abstract: A new polymeric composite based on natural rubber reinforced with hemp has been processed by electron beam irradiation and characterized by several methods. The mechanical characteristics: gel fraction, crosslink density, water uptake, swelling parameters, and FTIR of natural rubber/hemp fiber composites have been investigated as a function of the hemp content and absorbed dose. Physical and mechanical properties present a significant improvement as a result of adding hemp fibres in blends. Our experiments showed that the hemp fibers have a reinforcing effect on natural rubber similar to mineral fillers (chalk, carbon black, silica). The crosslinking rates of samples, measured using the Flory-Rehner equation, increase as a result of the amount of hemp in blends and the electron beam irradiation dose increasing. The swelling parameters of samples significantly depend on the amount of hemp in blends, because the latter have hydrophilic characteristics. Is there a dandelion hemp blend that's good for tires? Michelin has rice byproduct in their current Most Sustainable Tire. Maybe dandelion stems, some part of the industrial hemp plant, and rice byproduct? With processing by IDK cheaper Electron Beam Irradiation too?
- mtmail 2y agoEnvo advertises eco-friendly tires. But it's still rubber "Erlendsson was light on the technical details but promised 10 percent lower rolling resistance than regular tires". https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/24/24183327/ev-tire-pollution-enso-us-factory-investment https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/24/24183327/ev-tire-pollutio...