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I don't know much about electricity but surely an anode is necessary for electrons to flow? Sayeth Wikipedia, "Instead, it creates a metal anode the first time

I don't know much about electricity but surely an anode is necessary for electrons to flow? Sayeth Wikipedia, "Instead, it creates a metal anode the first time it is charged." Ok. I'm still not entirely clear on it but it makes some kinda sense.

drdaeman 2y ago
Yea, it also confused me - "anode-free" suggests there is no anode, and to best of my understanding a battery needs two electrodes so there will be a circuit for the current to flow. The full Wikipedia quote is: "An anode-free battery (AFB) is one that is manufactured without an anode. Instead, it creates a metal anode the first time it is charged." It's sort of like "serverless" ;)
- cogman10 2y ago
  I think the way to understand it is that there isn't a special layer in the battery foil for making the anode. It's all chemically the same. I mean, with the server-less analogy, it is sort of like the fact that you don't manage the creation and destruction of the VM, someone (something) is though.
  - philistine 2y ago
    Serverless is a buzzword for the executive class. You’re telling me I could run my code AND fire all the employees managing my servers!
    - merlindru 2y ago
      Serverless has become "you provide a function that handles request/response, we run and scale it on our infra" You essentially only handle business logic, not the "serving" part of the server, but IMO it's not a buzzword. I'm not a huge fan of it personally because I want control and fear lock-in, but there's real meaning behind it, no?
jdthedisciple 2y ago
The other thing is how is that a benefit? Why should I be excited that "it creates its metal anode the first time it is charged"? I mean this question in ELI5-fashion not in a disparaging one.
- ok_dad 2y ago
  cheaper to manufacture with less parts, since anodes are usually an expensive part made from expensive materials and are hard to manufacture
- timerol 2y ago
  Better energy density, since there is no permanent anode structure needed. See chart "b" from the article
- dclowd9901 2y ago
  The two replies here don’t really get at _how_ it’s better: it’s because you don’t have material in the battery that exists simply to be an anode. In effect, it’s more efficient by weight.
- syncsynchalt 2y ago
  ELI5: It's cheaper/easier to dump chemicals in a battery and have them form the structure, than to carefully build and install the structure into the battery. Battery construction is process-intensive (lots of fiddly things you have to do carefully and in order), and everyone's looking for ways to cut that down.
timerol 2y ago
The anode is the part of the battery that ions flow to when charging the battery. To save weight as much as possible, you can imagine a case where the anode is only the ions that moved to the anode. This is what "anode-free" means. When the battery has charge, there will be some sodium metal as the anode. When the battery is fully discharged, there will be no anode, because the sodium has moved into the cathode.

drdaeman 2y ago

Yea, it also confused me - "anode-free" suggests there is no anode, and to best of my understanding a battery needs two electrodes so there will be a circuit for the current to flow. The full Wikipedia quote is: "An anode-free battery (AFB) is one that is manufactured without an anode. Instead, it creates a metal anode the first time it is charged." It's sort of like "serverless" ;)

cogman10 2y ago
I think the way to understand it is that there isn't a special layer in the battery foil for making the anode. It's all chemically the same. I mean, with the server-less analogy, it is sort of like the fact that you don't manage the creation and destruction of the VM, someone (something) is though.
- philistine 2y ago
  Serverless is a buzzword for the executive class. You’re telling me I could run my code AND fire all the employees managing my servers!
  - merlindru 2y ago
    Serverless has become "you provide a function that handles request/response, we run and scale it on our infra" You essentially only handle business logic, not the "serving" part of the server, but IMO it's not a buzzword. I'm not a huge fan of it personally because I want control and fear lock-in, but there's real meaning behind it, no?

jdthedisciple 2y ago

The other thing is how is that a benefit? Why should I be excited that "it creates its metal anode the first time it is charged"? I mean this question in ELI5-fashion not in a disparaging one.

ok_dad 2y ago
cheaper to manufacture with less parts, since anodes are usually an expensive part made from expensive materials and are hard to manufacture
timerol 2y ago
Better energy density, since there is no permanent anode structure needed. See chart "b" from the article
dclowd9901 2y ago
The two replies here don’t really get at _how_ it’s better: it’s because you don’t have material in the battery that exists simply to be an anode. In effect, it’s more efficient by weight.
syncsynchalt 2y ago
ELI5: It's cheaper/easier to dump chemicals in a battery and have them form the structure, than to carefully build and install the structure into the battery. Battery construction is process-intensive (lots of fiddly things you have to do carefully and in order), and everyone's looking for ways to cut that down.

timerol 2y ago

The anode is the part of the battery that ions flow to when charging the battery. To save weight as much as possible, you can imagine a case where the anode is only the ions that moved to the anode. This is what "anode-free" means. When the battery has charge, there will be some sodium metal as the anode. When the battery is fully discharged, there will be no anode, because the sodium has moved into the cathode.